259 I Left My Job And Took A Risk--And It Paid Off with Xenia Chen, Founder of Threads
Xenia Chen, Founder of Threads
Xenia Chen is the founder of Threads.
Threads is a modern hosiery, tights and intimates brand, born out of her frustrations with the hosiery shopping experience during her time working in finance. By cutting out the middleman and working directly with our Italian factory, they're able to offer customers a luxurious and high-quality pair of tights at a fraction of the going price.
Threads has been featured in Marie Claire, The TODAY Show, FLARE, FASHION Magazine, Byrdie, Cityline, Yahoo! Style, CBC The National, THE KIT, and many other media outlets.
In this episode, we chat about:
Starting her company from a personal pain point that she was experiencing
Giving up what the ‘immigrant version’ of success looked like to her parents and paving her own path
How to know when something is an idea vs. a calling
Quitting her corporate job in investment banking to go full time with Threads
Why it’s vital to have a supportive friend group
The surprising niche that Threads is now serving
How she launched the business with 200+ names and emails
How she balances her time as a founder and keeps with with ‘wearing many hats’
To connect with Threads or with Xenia:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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Xenia Welcome to the visionary life Podcast. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today. Normally, when we talk, we're talking about marketing and business growth strategies. But today, the spotlight is on you, we are so excited to hear how threads came to be and to learn a little bit more about your backstory. So thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me. Super excited to chat with you today, Kelsey.
So I know that your background was actually in finance and working in investment banking. So can you give us a little snapshot of what you were up to? Before launching the business?
Yeah, for sure. So I started my career in finance, to give you a little bit of background, me and my parents emigrated to Canada when I was five years old. And you know, for my entire life, I was sort of, you know, sold the, you know, the immigrant path to success is to go to a good school, get a stable, high paying job, and, you know, engineering or, you know, being a doctor or something. And, you know, that's the path to success. So, the longest time, you know, that was sort of my path. I went to Queens studied business there. Majored in finance, and I started my career in investment banking on Bay Street. So I worked in investment banking, and then private equity. Never thought that I would be an entrepreneur, I just was not on my radar. I think growing up, I always thought people who were entrepreneurs were like, the Mark Zuckerberg of the world, or, you know, like the, you know, that that archetype. So anyway, so 2014 Start working on wearing a lot of business attire, and I'm almost like, every single day wearing tights or nylons, or stockings. And, you know, I, I felt like I was at the point where I had to go to brand for almost every single thing for my blazers, for my shoes, socks, whatever. But I could not find a good title brand that I really loved. You know, something that was comfortable. While designed and also affordable. I felt like you're either going to a European name brand that has been around for like, literally 200 years, and you're spending a lot of money on that. Or you go to the drugstore, you spend you know, $10 on a pair that's affordable, but it's terrible quality doesn't match your skin tone, you get like one way out of it. So every time I complained about this at work, all of my female colleagues, but also sort of chime in, and it was this pain point, it was his share of frustration that every woman in my life felt. So it you know, 2014, I started feeling it. It was almost like every single time I put on a pair of tights, I was like very frustrated by either how much it cost or how uncomfortable it was. And I just knew that this was a problem that I felt that. Also a lot of women out there felt. So that's sort of the story of how threads came to be. So I mean, I sort of sat on this idea for for a while. And you know, at the time, I didn't know what the solution was going to be. I just knew that there was a problem that usually solved. Other women felt it. What can we do about this. So I actually ended up moving to New York for work for a few years where I put the idea on pause, and then came back, started feeling the same frustrations all over again. And sort of got to a point where I realized, you know, I'm thinking about this all the time, if I don't do something about it, I think I'm really going to regret it. So it was actually in 2018 and January 2018. That's when I started to sort of put pen to paper and start working on what seemed to be threads. Hmm.
Such an incredible story. There's a few things I want to pick apart from that. It's interesting, because I think a lot of us, we kind of go about our days, and we encounter friction, whether it's when we put on tight or when we go to like clean a pot on the stove, or whatever it is. And then there's some times when we think I could do this better, but then the idea just kind of fades away. But it sounds like with you it was more persistent, like almost like it was trying to show you this is your calling. So need to identify those. Just those moments where you're like, Okay, that is something that could be improved, but I don't feel passionate about it. I'm not gonna wake up tomorrow and think about this, versus something that you're like, there's a big challenge with women's hosiery, and I can't shake this idea and then thinking maybe I'm the one that's supposed to improve it.
Yeah, totally. You know, when I was working in investment banking, a lot of my male is predominantly male. A lot of those colleagues were We're always brainstorming like business ideas, like a lot of them did have the entrepreneurial bug, and they want to do something beyond that. And you know, a lot of the times like at dinner, we would be like brainstorming like ideas like mostly coming from them. And, you know, it just seemed like this idea of sort of disrupting the hosiery industry, making a better product was just so, so much more obvious than a lot of the ideas that they were sort of brainstorming. And it was almost like a no brainer, in a way like it just like, it almost seemed like everywhere I went, this idea was just like, staring me in the face. And again, like, as I mentioned, every time I talk to any of our, you know, like admin staff, or any women who were tight, yeah, it was almost like this visceral reaction, like you were almost like bonding over this, like, dislike of, you know, the types that were currently currently on the market.
And I know you had this moment, you shared it in another podcast episode that you were featured on that you said, Okay, if I were to wake up tomorrow, and somebody else built out this idea, I would be mad. So was that kind of the moment that you decided to start taking action?
Yeah, a little bit. You know, I think I just sort of got to the point in my life where I realized, like, you know, you don't really want to be 90 years old, looking back and realizing that you should have done this, like, you know what I've done that, like, I just didn't really want to be that version of myself that didn't take risks and didn't try stuff, especially when this idea was nagging at me for years, right? So so of course, there was no a part of it that was like, Oh, well, if somebody else did it, you know, I'd be like, Well, why not me. But then there was also this other side where it was like, Well, I want to just try to, you know, like, for myself, like, so I can be proud of myself and know that, you know, even if it doesn't go anywhere, at least I tried sort of like putting this whole thing to rest in a way.
Yeah. So what were some of those first steps that you took? Did you get the logo design right away? Did you try to find a manufacturer? Did you write an extraordinary business plan? Like, take us back to some of those key things that you said, Okay, I'm gonna spend the little time I have outside, we're working on what?
Yeah, so you know, what, it seems so silly to say, but at the beginning, I didn't think of it like, Okay, let me build out a brand, I'm going to start a business, I just, I always wanted to, you know, do the do enough work to figure out, Okay, does this idea have legs or not? So I think, you know, at the time, I like quitting my job and starting a business was so far from where I was mentally, that I knew that like, I had to work on it as like a, you know, quote, unquote, project on the side in order for me to do it, if that makes sense. So really, the first so by the way, I did this for I did both jobs for a year and a half before I finally left. So as you mentioned, it was mostly on evenings and weekends, and just really like any other time that I could get, you know, away from my full time job. So the first thing I really did was I created this, I would call it like a consumer research survey, it was just a survey that I ended up sending to, like, 20 of my close friends and colleagues. And they were forwarding it to their network. And, you know, at the end, 200, people had taken it, it was just over it was over the course of a weekend. And, and, you know, at first I was like, you know, I'd be happy if I got like, 20 responses, like, well, like 50 would be amazing. But I think the fact that people were responding and forwarding and really, you know, by the end of the weekend, I had 200 responses, that gave me a lot of motivation to keep going. And, you know, along with those responses, a lot of people were also emailing me saying, like, wow, like this, like, somebody should totally like, you know, build a new brand. And that was sort of like the first thing where I was like, okay, like, let's, let's keep going. So in the survey, what I was asking was, like, what's your current favorite brand? Like? What are the features that you like? What are the features you don't like? What's in your perfect Wish List of the perfect pair of tights? You know, how loyal are you to your current brand that you buy from? Like, it was like 20 questions, there's just like, purchase preferences and kind of like what they want and their dream tights. And it was from this data that I really started to build out our first prototype. And of course, like, you know, we have much fresher data now. We're constantly talking to our customers and constantly, you know, getting feedback from them. But I would say that this survey is truly what kick started at all. And, you know, the first product that we launched with that product is now Now the sheer contour tights, which is one of our bestsellers, I think it's actually the number one bestseller. And of course, it's evolved a lot from where it was when we first launched. But you know, the sheer contour tights? I would say like that was pretty much born from that survey alone.
Incredible. So with those 200 people that filled out the survey, I'm sure a lot of them were giving you validation of yes, we want this, we need this. On the other side, were you being met with any feedback? Or just people who maybe were doubting in the potential of this idea? And if so, how did you navigate some of those people who maybe didn't see the vision?
So, you know, what? Not really, actually. And I feel like, because I had talked about this idea for literally years before I did anything, and I just knew that it was frustration and a problem among women, and you know, later on, like, among men, too, but we can talk about that later. So I knew it was a problem, like, you know, it was a no brainer that like this needed to be solved. I think where there could have been doubt is maybe, you know, people who, you know, I think everyone and their mother has a business idea these days. And you know, there's people who talk about it for years, but they don't do anything. So I think maybe where there was doubt was maybe people thought like, Oh, this is a cool idea. But like, are you going to do anything about it? You know what I mean? So, but generally, no, I, I like to think that, you know, the friends that I keep around and that network, and, you know, people are very encouraging and positive. I think were actually the people who are like the biggest supporters ever, but they thought I was crazy. At the time were my parents, right? They were like, you know, you have this like, incredible job. And now you're going to, like, sell pantyhose, like I think I you know, at the time I was just doing on the side. So they were like, Oh, cool. Like, you know, this is like a nice, post work extracurricular for you. Like, that's great. But I think, you know, as it was getting more serious, they were like, oh, okay, like, so this is like, this is a business like this is this is a thing. Not in like, a mean way or anything. But I think, again, like, my parents dream was to, you know, come to Canada like, so, you know, we can have a better life and all that. And I think for them to see me, sort of, you know, get there almost and you know, almost like throw it away, like, was probably scary for them. Because they were like, well, what are you? What are you doing? Right? So, but overall, like, I think I'm lucky and that I wasn't really met with a lot of doubt. I will say like, I have the most supportive group of girlfriends that really helped me out at the beginning, even from, you know, from product testing, to our first photoshoot where we used them and just being like the first customers, I think they have been super instrumental in building threads. And, you know, I'm so, so grateful for that. So actually, I think, you know, one of the tips that I would give people is just make sure that you're surrounding yourself with great people that want the best for you and, you know, are very supportive and are truly there for you. Because I don't know how far I would have gotten if I didn't have those girlfriends around me.
That's such a good point. And we don't often discuss this on the podcast. But you're right, you have to have people who are lifting you up and who are supportive versus people who doubt in your abilities or, you know, just secretly don't want to see you succeed. So I think that's always a good check in to say, am I feeling good in the presence of the people that I spend the most time with, and to have like, a supportive group of girlfriends that is invaluable? Like, you cannot even put a price tag on that. So that's really wonderful. Now, I'm very curious, how long did it take you from the point of, you know, you had this idea of how you are going to improve ozery And make tights better? How long did it take to actually get the final product? Like obviously, you had to find a manufacturer and you had to make sure that the quality was there? What is the typical timeline and what did yours look like?
So for us, it was about nine months. So I started really working on the business in January 2018 launched the initial prototype in September of 2018. So I would say yeah, nine, nine months give or take that I mean, now when we're developing products, it's you know, it's quicker and you know, we have sort of like the base, but it was I mean, I have no experience in textiles Manufacturing, like, no connections, like I just was relying on good old Google, which, honestly, like in this era, like, you can find a lot of stuff on Google and I was reaching out to manufacturers all over the world. You know, a lot of these products are being manufactured in China and in Asia, but also a lot in Europe, they're sort of like, the, like, the grand fathers of hos rate, you know, and I, like I would literally get home from work at 8pm. And then I would like be online, like, emailing talking to suppliers, manufacturers going back and forth. I think I initially reached out to maybe like 40, or 50 manufacturers, and then that gets narrowed down, right. So essentially, I would go to them pitch my like idea to them, I think that's one thing that people don't really understand is, like, you're, you're pitching to suppliers, you're pitching to like everyone in your supply chain. Like, it's not just like investors that you're pitching to, you know, like, every single thing that you're doing in the early days is in the sales pitch, right. So whether it's your customers, or your manufacturers, like you want people to really buy into your idea, and, you know, a lot of these manufacturers, they work with these huge, huge brands, and, you know, the revenue that you're going to bring them at the beginning is just a drop in the bucket, like, it doesn't even matter. So, I guess you have to really convince them, like, why should they give you the time of day? Like, why should they you know, put in like X amount of work and get like, why revenue while you know, they could do the same and, you know, basically like 100x that revenue with, with, you know, one of the incumbent brands that they're working with. So I think that's something that a lot of the times when people are starting, they don't realize that they just assume that they can go to a manufacturer and be like, alright, like, make the thing like done. And, I mean, we so the prototype that we made with our first manufacturer, we're actually not using them anymore. So we, at the time, it was a manufacturer in China, and now we're manufacturing in Italy. So, you know, it's like, you have to really try out a bunch of things. And some of the times, you know, you can get a quote, and it's it's a low price. But that's, that's not necessarily the people that you want to go with, right? Like, I think you want to balance, cost, of course quality, but then also it's like, are these the partners that you want to be growing with, because if not, like that's, that's a little bit of a non starter, right. And I found that one of the reasons that we left our manufacturer in China was, they were huge. So they really, were not being flexible when it came to minimum orders. I felt like I just wasn't really getting the time of day from them. And they weren't really as interested in like the innovation. And it was it was very, just like, it was a true factory, you know, like, you go in, like you go out, and there's not really a lot of creativity there. I thought. So, you know, the partners that we have now in Italy, actually, funnily enough, they were the first people that I reached out to back in, you know, January 2018. And I don't know, I think we just sort of like fell off. But we've been working with them now since 2019. They're amazing, such way partners, just a lot of flexibility. And like really, you know, buying into the vision of the product and, and true true partners in every sense of the word.
That's incredible. So once you've got your initial shipment of products, what were some of the key things that you were doing to acquire customers and to spread the word? Was it mostly digital? Did you do in person events in Toronto? Or was it a hybrid of the two?
Yeah, so lots of lots of lessons there. With the first shipment, I mean, we always joke that we have we still have the first shipment part of it in my parents basement. Because like the product has evolved so much since then, and like we're you know, we're not going to sell the the old stuff. They're like going to be relics. But you know, so lots of lessons and lots of mistakes from our first shipment. So I ordered, I don't know I want to say like maybe like 4000 pieces just start. So so a lot. I didn't know at the time that when someone tells you this is the minimum order quantity, that it's it's negotiable. Like it's not like they'll say this is the minimum but like it's all negotiable. So I want people to know that There's a lot of flexibility there. Whether or not they're going to give you that flexibility. That's another question. But in general, like, there is flexibility, I didn't really know that. I also wanted to launch with three colors at the time, which I probably should have just launched with one. You know, I think, whenever I talk to like aspiring entrepreneurs, I always say, like, try to launch with the minimum number of SKUs, you can launch with, just because for us, like we had different sizes, and you know, but my goal at the beginning was just to figure out, Okay, does this idea have legs or not? Like, do you know, do I continue? I was actually having a conversation recently with a friend who is thinking about starting her own business. And she was asking me, you know, at what point did you figure out the product market fit? And my answer to that was, I don't think there was just this one point in time, I thought about it in terms of levels and stages. So it was like, Okay, at this stage, what is the answer that I need to keep going? And like, if I got that answer, I want to keep going. But then like, you know, the next stage, what is the answer? I need that? So. So with this stage, it was like, is there going to be market uptake. So when I launched, it was completely word of mouth, you didn't spend any money on paid ads, because I just wanted to see what the organic response was going to be. So of course, I blasted the launch to those 200 people, they were forwarding it to their colleagues and their friends, and so on, and so forth. So, you know, launch week, it was, it was pretty, it was pretty big. And, you know, at the time, we were fulfilling orders on our own, so I would go up to my parents house on the weekend, you know, involve my sisters, and my mom, and we were all fulfill these orders. And, you know, at that point, it was like, like, the volume was, it was quite big for, you know, just just the four of us. And for a long time, we were completely just, you know, organic word of mouth. Like, we obviously had social media. But really no additional spend until I wanted to figure out, you know, am I going to continue with this? Like, what's the next step? Sort of? So yeah, that was, I mean, it wasn't really like a formal marketing strategy. Again, this all sounds so silly, like looking back four years later. But it was really like, a mess at the beginning, I would say. But at the end of the day, like I did get the answer that I was looking for, which was, Does this have traction? Like, does this have enough interest that I want to keep going to the next step?
And I think it's really important to have these conversations too, and to showcase that not every entrepreneur has this elaborate plan with hundreds of contingency plans. And yeah, they usually just dive in. And like you said, it's kind of like, What proof do I need today, in order to wake up tomorrow and continue to drive this business forward, and looking for those clues that this is working? And then obviously paying attention to what's not working and using that problem solving part of your brain to say, Okay, well, if this isn't working tomorrow, I will try a different strategy. So it's not like, the best way to launch a business is to go into a dark cave and to write this perfect plan and edit it 500 times. Yeah, you do need to take calculated risks, but get yourself out there and start having conversations, build community get those 200 survey responses. And if you're getting that validation that you're on to something, that's when you can start to write little plans in the background.
Totally, yeah, I am such a big fan of, you know, doing the work to figure out if you should make the binary decision, right, like yes or no. And then, and then like proceeding, I think, you know, I feel like I had to unlearn a lot of stuff for my corporate life. And that was 100% one of them. So I came from a world where everything needs to be perfect before it goes out. Like, you know, the deck needs to be perfect. And logos needs to be aligned and like every, you know, the formatting needs to be like exact and all that stuff, which you know, totally understand the value of that in a position like that. But being an entrepreneur, that's not what it's about. You need to do the work to figure out am I going to do this? Am I not like you need to just keep moving things along. So I think my first year where I was completely doing threads, that was definitely something that I had to keep telling myself. Okay, no, like this is this is good enough to go out. Like let's just send this out. Or like, let's just make this change. Like let's test it out. Like it doesn't have to be like the perfect final version of it forever. So I would say that was like definitely an interesting mindset mindset shift for me.
So in that first year, you were probably wearing all of the hats, right? You're kind of picking up the tasks and spearheading all the projects. At what point? Did you bring somebody into your team? And what was one of the first things you outsourced for? Because you knew this isn't my wheelhouse? I need help.
Yeah, so I mean, you know, I still think I wear a lot of hats. And I think you're like, I think the misconception with a lot of people is that, you know, you're a founder, and then you can be like the, you know, a CEO, and you can outsource stuff. But I really think that if you want to do a good job, and outsourcing and hiring, you need to do the work yourself to figure out what the work is like and what needs to be hired for. So my first hire, she came in in 2019, of the fall of 2019, she was a general Biz Ops hire more on the junior side, and she was just really helping move like everything. At the time, we were, we were fulfilling our own orders from our office at a co working space. So she was doing a little bit of that she was just like really helping me with just like, whatever I needed help with, I just needed like a second person. So she was there for just a few months. And she ended up you know, moving on to work at a tech company. And then for a while, during the pandemic and 2020 I was on my own. And then after that I hired a digital marketing manager. So it's, it's interesting, whenever people ask me about like, what's your first hire? What should my first hire be? It's like, your first hire will be different at different points in your business. So 2019 My first heart my first hire, quote, unquote, was, you know, Biz Ops associate. And, you know, one year later, my first hire, there was a digital marketing manager. So those two roles are very, very different. Because you know, your business can change a lot in the one year. So I think that answer can only be answered by yourself. Like, I think you need to figure out like, okay, what are my own skills? What does my business look like? What does my business need? And sort of mishmash those two and figure out like, Okay, what is the hire that I can make that really fills that role right now. And I think another thing is, with our digital marketing manager, who is still with us, two and a half years later, I really wanted to make sure that she could do the job that I needed, and 2020, then she could also grow into the job she has now. So you know, that's managing other people on the team, and really leading not just, you know, being like the only person that works with me. So I think that's very important as well. I mean, I always think that with every hire you make, there's always lessons and a lot of a lot of learnings. But I think hiring is one of the most important things you can do, I really just think that the only way that you can really grow your business and a nice, healthy sustainable way is to hire good people, you know, get them up to speed, get them really like, align with your brand vision and what you're doing and sort of grow from there. I also feel like every single person you bring on ever will leave some sort of an imprint on your business, whether that's good or bad, right, like, I think every single person that has worked here has left their own sort of like stamp or like, their own like flavor, like into into the business. And so I mean, that being said, obviously if it's a great hire, like amazing, but if it's a not so great hire, like, unfortunately, like it'll be it might be like the same, right? So, um, you know, that quote that people say it's like, hire slow fire fast. Yeah, yeah, fire fast, hire slow. I think that's so true. I think a lot of the times, like, for now, we always, you know, have people do like a part time or like a contract position before we hire them on a full time basis. And, you know, it's, it's to protect both ends, right? Because I think when you're working at an early stage, business or an early stage startup, like it's very, like you're not as insulated from the ebbs and flows as you are when you're at a bigger company. So I think sometimes you might think like, Oh, it's so fun to work at a startup but like it might not be for you. Right. So you know, I think that trial period is really helpful for both parties.
Absolutely. And I love that visual that everybody who comes into your company leaves some sort of impact. It's like even the systems they set up, you may, if it didn't work, I would have to like undo a lot of totally bad cause I'm so it's really making sure you put the time and energy into hiring somebody who sees the vision and who resonates with the story and who not only has the skill set, but really wants to help you build something bigger. So I think that's a really good takeaway tip. Yeah. So I'm very curious at this point, when somebody asks you to explain what threads is, what do you say, and where is the business at today?
Yeah, so we say that we are a modern hose rate and intimates brand, actually a modern unisex hose rayon and intimates brand. So our differentiation really is every single product we put out. We design using the feedback and data and input from real people. And that's why we call ourselves modern is because when I first started out, I realized that a lot of the molds that these traditional brands were using, were from, like the 70s, or the 80s. Which is just insane, right? Because I think our use case for tights and clothes is, is different now than it was 50 years ago. So truly, like, whenever we launch a new product, we go out and we ask our customers, you know, what do you think is missing with what's on the market? What do you currently, like? I'm just we're like the same set of like, not saying but like, similar set of questions, as I asked in the first survey that I sent out, and we use this data to and it's like, you know, live fresh data. And we we take this to our manufacturer, and we you know, we work on okay, well what are like the solution for this. So for example, I'll give you some, you know, examples of the feature. So, we one of our, like, fan favorite features is the contour control top. So we designed this, because a lot of people out there were saying, you know, I love the idea of like control and shaping, but a lot of the times it's like way too tight, it's like uncomfortable to get on and like leaves marks on your skin, it's just very, very tight. So what we did is we actually added these targeted compression bands that only shape and lightly compress the areas that you want. So really like the front of the stomach, the sides, and it actually lifts your bond instead of flattening it. So it just feels like a really nice comfortable hug. It's really hard to describe unless you sort of try it out. But we have a lot of like flight attendants who wear it for like 18 hours on a flight and they love it. So just a very little thing that, you know, I think for someone who's not wearing it, they might not understand but it like makes a huge difference. And like another thing is we have what we call our realistic leg length. So one of the biggest problems that people were saying about their tights was that they were to shore and you end up with like the double crotch issue or the actual where your actual crush is way higher than your tights. So what we did, what we did is we took the measurements of real women and we actually corresponded the leg length to the like the ABCDE. F size, we found a lot of the ones in the market, they have the same leg length, regardless of size, which is just insane, right, like somebody who's the size, a should not be the same leg length, because someone who's a size F, like I understand there's a lot of scratch, but this is the reason why people complain about the double crotch issue. So again, it's just these little features that are, you know, thoughtful and are crowdsource that we really implement into our products. And last year, we actually started launching products that were beyond tight. So we actually launched our actually have the pair right here Our reusable nipples, stickies. So it's called threads because we eventually want to expand to lots of different products that are wardrobe basics, so things that you absolutely need in your wardrobe, but maybe they're kind of like afterthought. So these are just, you know, invisible, reusable. very seamless. These are these has been a huge hit. And yeah, we're really excited to be designing products beyond tights. And that was sort of like our first first go at it.
And one of the unexpected markets that you're now serving is men. How did you discover that men were using and loving breads products?
Yeah, so as I mentioned before, when it first launched, it was completely organic word of mouth, a few months and we decided okay, let's try to run some Facebook ads. So as you know the Facebook algorithm is very smart. And even if you are targeting women, sometimes logist serve your ad to the people that are most likely to buy your product. So for us, it was it was men, and we didn't know that at the time, we started getting orders from men. And at first I thought, okay, maybe they're just buying them as gifts, or, you know, maybe people from the drag community. But I have this email that comes from me after every first purchase, that asks, you know, like, what's your feedback? Like, is there anything we can do better, and we were getting a lot of these email responses from men, and they were saying, you know, I combine them for myself, like, I wear them for compression, and for warmth, and, you know, so on and so forth. So that was really interesting, I had no idea. And of course, there are men who are part of the cross dressing community or the drag community that welcomes, you know, more for fun. But then there are also men, part of this hetero, you know, community, who will buy a pair for themselves and a pair for their wives. So they are wearing them for comfort, compression for warmth, they have a lot of guys that work outdoor jobs that wear them under their uniforms to prevent ticks, we get a lot of army guys that will wear them, which is super interesting. And turns out like there is this massive, like underground segment. And I say underground, because I feel like a lot of these traditional host rebrands have known about this for years, but they are just for some reason or another, they are not really marketing to them. Which of course is like an opportunity for us, right? Like I think a lot of these men. They're just so excited that there's like a modern brand that actually is speaking to men and women. So, um, yeah, and like, you know, since since that, like, you know, as we're running more and more ads, and as we, you know, have more content that is more geared towards men, we're just getting more and more male customers.
And it almost it's so obvious, like, stay in touch with your customers always be in conversation with the people who are using your product, pay attention to the data that's presenting itself, but it's almost so right in front of us that sometimes we forget that so many of the answers to where we need to double down on growth are already right in front of us. Like we're looking for all these like genius opportunities, or it's like, what is that innovative new way to connect with people? And it's like, just review what's already happening inside of your business? Yeah, where did your last 20 Customers come from? Can you reach out to them? Can you talk to them? Because that's probably where the sparks are gonna fly?
For sure. And just on that note, something that we've tried doing that has worked really well for us is, you know, I think we have a certain way of like describing tights like we as in women. But you know, that type of language might not resonate with men. So what we were doing is, we were coming through our reviews by men, and we were looking at, how are they describing our product, and we were using that language to reflect in our ads. And we realized, like, once we sort of did that rehaul like those ads that were targeted towards men were performing way better, because all of a sudden, were using the language that they're using, like it's clicking. So, yeah, like very, like, it's yeah, sometimes it's like, literally right in front of you like it's free. Like you don't need to, like do anything crazy to tap into that, like, unlock of growth. But yeah, it's so like, it's so important to do like an internal audit, like, like, often because I think, you know, when you're first starting your business, like things are changing so quickly, that it's, it's really easy for answers to be in front of you, but then for them to be totally missed.
You mentioned that you're still wearing a lot of hats in the business. And as founders and entrepreneurs, we're always learning always needing to grow and expand our skill sets. I'm curious, is there a skill or something that you're currently investing time or energy and money into learning personally or professionally?
Um, I mean, like, a lot of stuff. I actually I love, like learning, you know, new, like, hands on skills and I think I've gotten a lot better at design and the past two years, thank you to Canva that has, you know, made it made it a lot easier. That has been, you know, super cool. I think like, you know, video editing like that's another thing like that, you know, my team is always like teaching me like the new apps and, and all that so like, that's, that's really cool. I just I guess I don't ever want to be you know, like, I want to know I'm really how things work in the business. And in you know, even though social media is my teammate Becca's realm, I still want to know, like, what's going on? Like, what is the algorithm telling us right now? Like, what are, you know what ads are being favored. So I just like, that's like maybe just like my personality and maybe like, along the like, down the line, like a minute you just stop doing that, or else it's too, it's too much. But for now, I think it's super cool. Because if you want to learn anything about like, anything, literally just want you to write, and then there's like, hundreds of people that will like teach you. And I think especially when it comes to like, the more technical side, like whether it's like, well, web development or design and, and, and things like that.
And I think it allows you to to just have more intelligent conversations with the people who work with you, right, it shows that you care about the roles that they're spearheading, and yet, you may not go as in depth as they do down the learning rabbit hole, but at least to know what's going on and to keep a pulse. You can continue to generate ideas on behalf of the entire business, but then maybe figure out how to translate them to specific avenues. So I think that's wonderful. And yeah, there's never a shortage of needing to learn new things. And I think that's the best part about being an entrepreneur, but can also be the most overwhelming. It's like, oh, this is gonna be a lifelong learning, like, I'm never just coasting in this job.
For sure, for sure. And you know, what, I also think it's important to know how to, like, do certain things, like, for example, like Facebook ads, and like Google Analytics, like, if you don't know, like, anything at all about that, like, how are you reasonably gonna get, like a quote or an estimate from agency, right? And like, understand, like, what metrics are going to be talking about and what's like, a reasonable growth rate, and you know, what's not a reasonable growth rate? Like, I just think that like, if you don't know the basics of that, like, how are you going to go into a negotiation or discussion and know how well this, you know, outsourced agency is performing? Like, I think that's where a lot of people, you know, I think real, like they realize after the fact like, oh, like maybe, like the link, like click through rate, like that they were proposing is actually like way lower than like, what it should be and whatever.
Yeah, yeah. makes you a little bit more savvy when people are potentially scamming you.
So totally.
So if any of this has been so good, I feel like there's so much more to the story. But maybe we could always do a part two. So if people want to get their hands on threads, if they want to connect with you, and maybe ask you a question, personally about your founders journey, where are the best places for them to find you and connect with you.
So you can go on our website, it's your threads.co. So y o u r t h r e a d s.co. We're also on Instagram. So threads.co. And we do a Friday, ama every week. So I'll you know, go on or answer questions. So it's anything from like product questions or business building questions. So I think that's probably the best way to chat with me and like, We love getting all sorts of questions. But yeah, this flew by. It always does. And thank you so much for sharing your story for opening up about the journey. And we will link everything you shared in the show notes so that people can go connect with you and find you. And we wish you all the best as you continue to grow threads.
Thanks so much, Kelsey. It was lovely being here.
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