315 Meet the Entrepreneur Who Gets Paid to Ask Questions (The Career of Curiosity)
Brandon Fong
Husband, Connector, & Host Of The Top 2% Globally Ranked Beyond Curious™ Podcast
Brandon Fong: Where do I even begin with this incredible human!?
He has the biggest heart, a true gift for connecting people together and creating meaningful gatherings, and a curious explorer of life.
I met Brandon inside of a virtual mastermind, but a year later I flew to Park City Utah to meet him in person at a retreat he created for visionary entrepreneurs.
I genuinely enjoy my conversations with Brandon, whether they’re recorded or not, and today I get to share one of them with you.
In this episode, we’re talking about:
How he got into entrepreneurship,
His start in the restaurant industry and in network marketing,
And how he found his purpose for creating a more deeply connected world
The Ikea Effect & MORE!
And what's really fun too is that I also recorded an episode for Brandon's podcast, the Beyond Curious Podcast, where Brandon is on a mission each week to create a more deeply connected world by catalyzing curiosity.
He has high energy and the largest heart, and honestly I don’t know why you WOULDN’T want to have someone so passionate as a friend, a colleague and person you can call on with questions about life and business.
I wouldn't have jumped on a plane and flown to the USA if I didn't think this human was awesome.
To connect with Brandon:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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You're listening to the visionary life podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey Reidl.
Each week, I'll bring you conversations with the most visionary humans on this earth, in hopes that you'll be able to absorb their wisdom, avoid their failures and feel less alone on the roller coaster ride that is entrepreneurship. This season, I'll be chatting with creative thinkers, masterful marketers, brick and mortar shop owners, brand builders, and people just like you who have a story to share or a vision that inspires. If I can share one quick secret with you before we get into the episode is that we all have a little bit of visionary inside of us, you know, that spark that nudges us to pursue our full potential in this lifetime. But perhaps somewhere along the line, it got covered up. I'm here to tell you that it's never too late to explore that inner voice and access the brilliance deep down inside of you. It's in you. It's in all of us. Let's dive in. Hey, visionaries. Welcome back to the podcast. Today's guest is Brandon Fong, where do I even begin with this incredible human being? Brandon has the biggest heart, he has a true gift for connecting people together, he has introduced me to some amazing humans.
And his brain always goes to who can I introduce this person to it's like the least selfish thing ever. He's always looking to plug you into the people who are going to change your life. And he's also a curious explore of life. And he has created some of the most meaningful gatherings that I've ever attended. Actually, one in particular, you may remember from Episode 296, I recapped, this incredible Random Trip to Utah that I took to hang out with 12 entrepreneurs at this mansion in Park City. And Brandon was the visionary. He was the creator of this. And I had no intention of going on a one week trip to Park City in July. But I knew that Brandon would get the right people in the room. He has this ability to build relationships, keep in touch. And he is just very masterful at gathering really interesting human beings. And I know it took a lot for him to launch this retreat and to hold the vision that the right people would show up. But let me tell you, it was so insanely awesome. So I genuinely think you're going to enjoy this conversation with Brandon, it goes all over the place.
We're talking about how he got into entrepreneurship, his start in the restaurant industry and in network marketing, that was kind of what his parents showed him as a child. And then it kind of evolved into where he is today. And the frameworks that he loves and teaches including the IKEA effect, how to build real AR EA l relationships. He talks about the infinity loop and you're gonna have to tune in to hear about all of them. And what's really fun too, is that I also recorded an episode for Brandon's podcast, the beyond curious podcast. And on Brandon's podcast, he's on a mission to create a more deeply connected world by catalyzing curiosity. And we kind of had a two part conversation because after I interviewed Brandon, I got to be on the other side of the mic, and he interviewed me and we were just like, Whoa, that two hours was so fun. So fulfilling, so magical. So we're going to air both episodes. If you liked this one, make sure you listen to the other episode. So without further ado, by the way, if you listen right to the end, Brandon is actually giving you his phone number. And if there's one person in this world you want to be connected to. It's Brandon Fogg. He has high energy and the largest heart and I just don't know why you wouldn't want to connect with someone so passionate. He has interviewed some of the most insane guests on beyond curious, I'll link it all in the show notes. I wouldn't get on a plane and fly to the USA if I didn't think this human was awesome. So let's get into this week's episode with Brandon bomb. Hey, visionary. Do you remember why you got into business? Why you said yes to entrepreneurship in the first place. For so many of us. It's because of that freedom that it can bring and the joy of helping our clients and our customers transform their lives. But then we get bogged down with things like too much responsibility, decision paralysis, feeling so alone and like we're doing this by ourselves. And what's worse is that we can see everything we desire and We just don't know how to get to that next level.
So what if there was a space where you could actually come on a weekly basis to enrich your business to hang around other impact driven and health and lifestyle anchored entrepreneurs, and people who have shared values and really big visions like you do. My co host, Emily Elliot, and I run an exclusive mastermind for high performing female entrepreneurs, we are almost full, but we are accepting a few new members. So you can head over to Kelsey rydell.com/mastermind. If you've been looking for a community, and a group of women just like you. This is a space that focuses on individual and shared success, we celebrate each other, we hold space for each other, we coach each other, and Emily and I lead you through trainings and we bring forward guest experts on the topic of luck on money mindset, on things you can do to improve your sales conversions and so much more. Our group meets at the same time each week, every single Wednesday. And each month, we set our focus around key areas so that you can become the most resilient, motivated and healthy entrepreneur possible. So we have strategy time, implementation time, but we also talk about relationships, mental agility, adventurous marketing, boosting conversions, etc. Again, this is an exclusive space for high performing female entrepreneurs. So head over to Kelsey rydel.com/mastermind. To apply. You can see pricing, what it looks like to join who's in the room with us. And we definitely only have a few spots. So if you want to slide in, we would love to see your application come through.Brandon, welcome to the visionary life Podcast. I'm so excited number one, because we get to spend our mornings together, I was like, Hey, would you mind doing an early morning session, and you were totally up for it. So I feel like this is the best way to start the day. And you and I have actually known each other a couple years and got to know each other in a mastermind. So virtually. And then we actually got to meet IRL in July of 2023, which is actually my favorite thing. Like I love the power of the online world. But it's really neat to be able to move these relationships into more of an offline analog, I get to know you, I get to hug you. So first off, I just wanted to say welcome to the show.
Oh my gosh, Kelsey, I'm super excited for Kelsey and Brandon day, and was just really grateful for the invite, and I so appreciate you visionaries for hanging out with us today. If you are listening to Kelsey, if you have her up and your ear lobes, you're in the right spot, because I love you very much Kelsey, so grateful for being here and grateful for you guys listening.
So, so excited. So Brandon, you are a husband, you're a connector, you're a podcast host, you are a masterful community builder. And I believe you use the word super connector, you're an entrepreneur. So you know, I wanted to start at a point where it's kind of that boring question that a lot of people will ask us when they say so what do you do? So when somebody asks you that because you are someone who's so multi passionate multitalented and I feel like that question could make us freeze up. But at this point in your journey, when somebody says, hey, Brandon, nice to meet you. What do you do? What is the first thing that comes out of your mouth? I want to hear from your perspective, because you do so much
the great question and it's a hard question. Because when I answered that, I always want to answer it from the perspective that's going to serve the person that is talking to that I'm talking to. So usually I'll come from a perspective of wanting to be curious and get to know the person ahead of time, because if it's somebody that's not really familiar with the world that we live in, or the world that you hanging out listening, you know, it doesn't make sense for me to really go into the intricacies. So I might say I'm a podcaster, I might say I'm a consultant. But if I'm talking to a Kelsey Rydell, or somebody that I know is just like really excited or really passionate about this world, I think the easiest way I've been able to explain it lately is I craft experiences that build deep human connection. And I know it's kind of like a 30,000 foot esoteric view. But I am all about creating containers and opportunities for people to connect with that deeper, more authentic version of themselves. And then once I've been able to do that to develop relationships with other people as well. So that comes in several formats that comes with my own show. It comes with the events that I put together for my guests that comes from the in person experiences that I'm creating right now. And then I also help consult and I help support people on the process that I've developed over the years of how to develop real relationships, which we could dive into later on, on on my podcast. So I have a few clients that I help support with that process as well on how to build deep relationships with people that are, you know, potential strategic partners and all that good stuff. So hopefully that that explains it as best as possible.
It is such a good launching pad and I think the first question that I have back to you is As connecting always come naturally to you, because I noticed that every time I talk to you, you'll say something like, oh, I want to connect you with this person. And then you'll follow up with this beautiful introduction.
And I've often noticed myself thinking, that is not my default, you know, when I'm chatting with someone, I'm so engaged, but I don't always think who do I know that I can put this person in touch with? And you've actually inspired me greatly to really add that to a conversation to say not what can I do for this person? But do I know anybody that I could connect them with that could add value to their life? So has this always been a skill that came naturally to you? Or did you cultivate this over time? Where did this come from?It's such a great question. And I so appreciate you doing your homework for the podcast. And I'm always on the other on the receiving end of doing the homework. So when I saw you did your homework, because I know you pulled in your research that I grew up in a family of restaurant owners, but actually the really interesting part about my childhood is that was the early early years, like I wasn't even fully a human yet the most, most human, you know, teenage, earlier years, my parents had had a company that they were growing that I guess some people would call it MLM, whatever it is, but I had, I had this opportunity to see a culture of people that were really passionate about growth, about connecting.
And so I had some really, you know, it's funny to say, it's crazy to say this, but like, my parents were so good at getting my brother and I involved in the business and making us feel like we were a part of it. So this sounds like crazy alien language, like who does this, but my parents would take me us out, and we would meet people, we would connect with people, I was cold calling people when I was 12 years old, I would go to like the conferences. And so I think I was just steeped in the environment of people that are passionate about becoming the best version of themselves. And that really kind of inspired me and seeing my dad do public speaking. And that kind of stuff was really kind of I think, the genesis of just understanding the importance of relationships to begin with. But as I've gone throughout my journey of building my network and connecting with people, I've realized that this is coming from the perspective of a podcaster. But you listen to you have this as well is that you are whether you're intentional about it or not, or you're unintentional about it, you are curating people, the people in your life, you are intentionally thinking about why they're in your life as a podcaster. I have very specific filters about who I'm bringing on the show and why I'm doing that. But I think most people don't realize the value of the people that you've curated in your life. And so whenever I'm connecting with someone, I know I can take a one plus one equals 11 opportunity that's really going to deepen the relationship with both parties at the same exact time. So I think it's just become a default, because I know when I have two humans that I deeply love that need to know each other that can create better impact in the world. I just want to make that happen as quickly and as deeply as possible. So, you know, I, I'm grateful that I've introduced you to some people. Kelsey, I know, I listened to your episode with Brian Scudamore, which was really cool to listen to that. And, and I know you just talked about Brooke and so yeah, I just I think it's it's it also brings me just deep joy and fulfillment to see people I love hanging out together. So I think that's kind of some of the contributions for it.Hmm, there's so much I want to unpack there. I think, first, I don't know if I ever told you.
But I also had a stint in network marketing. And as much as that industry gets perhaps a bad reputation, I actually think I learned so much about building businesses, making connections, how to, like, extract passion, and share that with others. And if you're excited about something, they can get excited about it. And I think that it is such an interesting way to learn business, because network marketing is all about connections. And it's about constantly growing your network and meeting people. So I think there's a lot that yeah, you probably gleaned from that chapter of your life, which is really, really neat. And something else that you said that I wanted to double tap on was this idea of you can either intentionally create your relationships, and curate people who you spend time with, and start to pick out people from the world that you're like, I want to surround myself with them.
Or that can be a totally unintentional process for some people. I think of my early years as a teenager, like I was just kind of unintentionally going about life and whoever I met or whoever was living near me with proximity. Those were the people I hung out with and now I'm kind of observing. I love hanging around people with this type of quality or who share this vision with me and I almost see it like this spectrum. There's like the unintentional like whoever I meet great, but then there's the intentional of like, oh my gosh, what if I connected with this type of person? I And you're somebody who I believe is very intentional about the people you surround yourself with, and are really unapologetic about going out there and making that initial connection, which is such a neat skill, because I think a lot of us block ourselves thinking, Oh, I could never get myself in that room, or I could never reach out to Brian Scudamore, who has a multi multi million billion dollar company. And so I'm curious when you're thinking about intentionally curating your network of people, and you want to make a connection with somebody who you have no relationship with at this point? Is there anything that you do that gets you noticed, or that makes you feel less awkward in making that initial touch point? Because I know so many of our listeners are terrified to reach out to somebody who inspires them? That they don't know.Yeah, this is such a good question. And I have spent hours thinking about this. So So you tell me, Kelsey, I think what I'll do is I'll give a, I'll give a fly by and then you tell me if you want to go deeper here, if you just want to keep it at the fly by so I believe you can build any relationship that you want, if you take the right avenue.
It's an acronym I invented. It's a VI E, and it stands for appreciate value, and end with a question. And so you're right, I think it is very daunting, especially when you're like, because I actually, that's how I connect with Brian, I sent him a cold email, like I didn't have a sum. Sometimes I have a warm introduction, that's actually most of the time what happens when I get connected with somebody. But every once in a while, there's like a human that it's like, oh, my gosh, you're doing some incredible things in the world? And how do I build a intentional relationship with you, that starts from a place of building a transformational relationship, not a transactional relationship. So AV E. So the first thing I'll say about appreciation is that if you go and you look inside of your email inbox right now, your LinkedIn email, your LinkedIn box right now, so many people are just spamming the same crap over and over and over again, right, and you can tell that they just are not really taking the time to connect. And so it's a small simple thing. I think most people think when they send an outreach, it needs to be about me and how cool I am and how, you know, much credentials I have, but really flip the script, what if you can make it about the other person, right? And so I teach this very specific way that you can do this, I call the Love Plus specific formula. And then something very simple. It's like, how specific Can you give someone a very specific appreciation for why you think they're an amazing human being. So if I was reaching out to Kelsey, and I didn't know her, I might say, hey, Kelsey, I listened to Episode 296 of you flying to Utah to meet some really cool humans. And I love that point that you made that sometimes you just got to make that jump. And even though you're nervous, just gotta reach out and connect with someone, thank you so much for sharing that there is no way that can be copied and pasted to any other human being except for Kelsey. And she knows that I actually listened to the episode, right? So whenever you're reaching out to someone, how do you actually start from a place of specificity? The next part is value. So also thinking about from the perspective of the other person, what is the value that I'm bringing to the table, I have been very intentional about building a podcast. And if you're listening to me, like, I don't have a podcast, I built this podcast for this purpose, so that I had a platform that I can immediately add value to people. And so I might say, if I'm reaching out to someone on the show, I would say, you know, I'm grateful to say I have a top 2% globally ranked show. These are the kinds of people I curate, these are some of the things that people say, you know, and I also love making warm introductions between people that are within my network. So that's the value chunk. And the last part is very simply end with a question. When you are responding to emails, the hardest emails to respond to are the ones that you don't know what the heck you're supposed to do. It's like, okay, so if you end with a very clear question, it makes it very simple to respond. So if I were, again, I'm using the context of a podcast, but we can make this more specific to the visionaries hanging out with us. When I am with a question, I might say something along the lines of 100% up to you and totally fine either way, but what are your thoughts on being featured on the show? Question mark, nothing else afterwards? It is very clear if somebody is reading that they're like, Okay, let's zoom out. They took the time to appreciate me they thought about how they can add value. And it's very simple. I can respond to that email with pretty much a one word or two word answer. Yes, I'm in or no, I'm out, right. And so I've done this over and over and over again. And I've tested this everything I've shared with you right there, like I have literally sent and tracked open rates, I've tracked click through rates and track reply rates, but hopefully that didn't go too deep. But I think it hopefully if you take the AV approach, appreciate value. And with the question, if you follow that, generally, you should make it a lot simpler to reach out and build relationships with people. AndI love that because when I think of me as an early stage entrepreneur, I think even when I did have the courage to reach out to people I didn't know it was more so of an ask, like, there was no appreciation. I don't know that I was adding value. It was more so Hey, can I pick your brain and can we go for coffee, and that kind of goes completely against the AV e framework, because you're going straight to the question, but it's not even a very good question like, Can I pick your brain? Yeah, so worst possible email that any busy entrepreneur could ever received? Because they're like, No, I don't have time for that. And it doesn't stand out from the 982 other emails that I got that said the exact same thing. Yeah,
I love this. And I want to jump in, because I do want to make this very applicable to your to your audience. And so I actually, yesterday, Kelsey, you know, we talked about the mastermind, we were in I was in Michael Rodricks. Group, and he brought in the celebrities. And we had to give a pitch on a concept. And we got feedback from all these incredibly high level people, which is really cool. And the concept that prevented this this presented is this idea that I've been talking about lately is called the mentorship infinity loop. It's very simple. But I want to just break this down really quickly, because I think it'll make it very easy for somebody that really resonates with what you just said, which I think is so brilliant. Because, yeah, if you don't have a platform, or if you're still figuring things out, like, how do you actually start this. And so what I've realized is I've deconstructed all of my mentorship relationships or deep relationships with some high level people, it felt a very simple pattern. So if you imagine infinity loop, right, on the left hand side, you have advice. And on the right hand side, you have action and gratitude. Those are the two components that make up any form of relationship. So if you can kind of imagine like, I use this graphic on my slides of like a jiff. So if you can kind of imagine, I know, I'm kind of you're listening, you're not listening, but imagine kind of like a ball kind of jumping around on the sides of the infinity loop, your goal to build relationships is to do the loop as many times as possible. And what I've realized is that you can start this loop on either side. So let me explain what that means. You can start by giving act taking action and expressing gratitude. And that is all you can do in the beginning. And that's completely fine. Like Kelsey, if you received a message that somebody said, Hey, I took what you shared it, I shared it, I applied it, I appreciate you so much, thank you for making an impact you are you're like there's no call to action, there's nothing, there's just gratitude, right, you are going to feel called to respond and say thank you so much. And that is putting the ball on your side. And if you do that enough, what might happen is you might get a piece of advice that is given from the mentor on the other side. And the more that you can create that exchange of action, taking gratitude, expressed action, taking gratitude, express action, taking gratitude Express, that is when relationships build and deepen and deepen and deepen. And so if you don't quite have a way that you want to use the full AV e approach, and I can even deconstruct that even easier, but how I use AV e really early on in my journey. But I think it's a very simple way that you could just take the A, just take the A, take a podcast that you listen to go implement it, send Kelsey an email, send somebody else an email, and just express the gratitude. And that's going to want to make them want to invest in you even more. And that's the basis of all relationships is mutual investing into each other.
Oh, this is so good. And yeah, if you even have a graphic of that, I can post it in the show notes. But for anyone listening that infinity loop of advice, action, gratitude, like keep that in mind, as you're thinking about building your business over the next 12 months. It's so so so valuable. So from a high level perspective, for somebody listening, they're hearing your enthusiasm in the importance of building relationships, and making genuine or real connections, as you would call them. But I would love to kind of double tap on what are some of the benefits you have found to prioritizing building real relationships and growing a network versus just mass marketing posting blindly on social media. I noticed you're not a big social media guy. You're not huge into creating one to many marketing campaigns where you're just like sharing TV ads and you know, pumping out content that's just going into the metaverse. When you think about that dichotomy, what you do is the one to one prioritize the connection, prioritize a real relationship versus what I see. I want to say 95% of new business owners doing which is one to many just start mass marketing, even though they feel like nobody's listening. Why do you see so much value in the one to one, what has that given you in your life in your business and your growth trajectory? Because this is a radically different way of life and doing business? Is
such a good question, Kelsey, because I haven't really thought about this and you're right. Yeah, like you can't really find me much on social I couldn't do it. Thank you. I couldn't be doing way better. Like I need to Kelsey right? masterclass on how I could be doing this way better, but I, I love going deep with people. And you can build a whole business going one on one and building deep relationships. Like as an example, what I've realized is, I'm just really grateful to say that some of the people on my show are playing really high levels. And one of the people I've admired a lot is this guy named Charles Byrd that's come on my show, I built an amazing relationship with him. And he's selling anywhere from 27,000 to $45,000 packages, and he doesn't use any social media he doesn't use he uses deep relationships and one on one referrals, right? Because if you think about and I want to make this applicable for everyone, because not everyone's gonna come out of it, I'm not even selling the level that Charles is talking about, right. But the higher you go, the more you realize that in price points, people trust, a referral significantly more. And so Charles, and I do these things called referral parties, where because we trust each other in our relationships, and we know the level of people that we were able to hang out with, like, we will like it's this session where you just sit down and you just say, what are you Who are you looking at getting connected with, and who am I looking at to get connected with. And we just make those deep introductions to each other, right. And like that just happens at a really high level. And so I just think specificity. And this is such a key theme, I'm not going to really nerd out on this that much. But if you do one to one, you have to understand people a lot deeper than if you're doing one to many, because one to many, this is gonna sound weird, you can hide doing one too many. You're talking, you can talk to so many people and be talking to no one, right? I think if you take the lens of talking to one person, and going deep with one person, you're going to understand how they function, what they need help and support with and you're going to be able to contribute at such a deeper level because you understand them so much more. And then that can expand a one to many. So I will say right now, like I've been, I've been hiding for a lot of time. And when I caught hiding, like I haven't been really rapidly scaling my podcast and all that kind of stuff, which I'm going to start doing this kind of stuff. But I think I'm ready now. Because I went so deep. And I understand and I've gone deep with myself, I've gone deep with other people now I feel like I am ready to communicate at a much one to many level. But I I would just encourage anyone to think about the value of going one to one because you're gonna have a much deeper understanding of the intricacies. And you could be creating and sharing content that's like not resonating with anyone. But if you're having a one on one conversation with someone and they're nodding, and they're they're they're they're giving facial expressions, it just gives you so many more feedback opportunities to really hone in the stuff that you're working on.
Mm hmm. And yeah, what I'm hearing you describe is actually kind of the opposite of I think how a lot of people enter into their entrepreneurial journey, they start with a one to many, they start blasting, hey, I have this group program. And then they wonder, like, why is nobody listening? And why is nobody joining and you realize you haven't really had any meaningful conversations with your dream avatar to validate that they actually are nodding along saying I want this. So then they have to almost learn this skill of connecting with people on a deeper level have that one on one conversation host one of our past guests on the podcast, Jonathan Goodman, he hosted something like 500 market research calls before he launched the Personal Training Development Center. People look at him and say, How did he launch this online b2b business for trainers and have such great success? Because he talked to 500 personal trainers on the phone, collected data, he was totally branded and had spreadsheets. And then he tweaked the product and launched it, he didn't just launch it in a dark cave, and then say, hey, is this the right fit? Does anyone want that? So I think it's such an interesting perspective to really ask yourself in this moment, am I doing well with the one to many or the one to one? And do I need to perhaps have a hybrid or sway towards one side or the other based on the feedback that I'm getting from my audience? I
love this. And I want to I want to add something here, but it's okay. You we could talk for forever and ever. So I want to talk about the IKEA effect because this is so important because I don't want this to be missed the importance of what Kelsey just shared of having those conversations doing that research. So I learned, I let my first ever mentor I'll give a hopefully a one minute version of this story. I was 16 years old. I was working on a business plan for a high school competition. It was my business plan was called the sizzling ninja food truck because that's all I knew about what a starting restaurants like, again, I'm 16 years old. My email address is Asian ninja 221 at gmail.com. Like it's, you know, there was no there was no reason for anyone to really see Hey, this is a kid that I want to help support. But my first ever mentor, I was wanting to fundraise for this trip to go to the international competition, because I took first and state with the sizzlin ninja. And I didn't have the money to pay for the trip. And my dad introduced me to this, this mentor, Brenda Campbell, and she shared one thing with me that completely transformed my life. And this will tie back into what you just shared. But she said, if you ask for money, you'll get advice. But if you ask for advice, you'll get money. And I was like, that sounds pithy. That sounds cool, but I don't, I don't really understand what you're talking about. She's like, Don't worry, let me let me let me share, let me actually show you what this means. And so she opened up her Rolodex and ended up connecting me to all these high level people. And again, I'm 16 years old. And she says, what I want you to do is I want you to ask for feedback on your business plan. And once you've asked for feedback, ask if they might be willing to contribute to your travel fund. And sure enough, I did this and $100 $200 $500. And I was able to pay for this trip. And it is because they invested in me firstly invested in my ideas first, that made it much more likely that they were willing to contribute and support my travel fund. Obviously, Brendan did some heavy lifting and made those introductions and set it up that way. But it's, again, I want to I'm going to tie this full circle to what you said. And hopefully this isn't going to two places too many places. There's another concept called the IKEA effect. And basically people value Ikea furniture more because they had to build it. Anything that we invest into we value more that is why Build A Bear. If you familiar with Build A Bear, you go and you build, you pump the frickin stuffing in you put the heart in it, you choose the squeaker mine was midnight and said I love you, I love you and you repress it right like, like, they literally use child labor to make you build a bear. But they charge $50 to buy this stupid bear. But it's valuable because you built into it. And the same goes with your relationships. So tying this together with what you said about doing those customer research calls. What Brenda Campbell shared with me in the IKEA effect. Again, it is easy to hide when you say this is my thing, I'm gonna put it out on social media, hopefully someone buys. But if you have a conversation with someone and get feedback on what you're working on, one, it's going to make your idea better. Because you're going to hear the things that in the reactions of people that are considering buying your thing, but to if they provide you with legit feedback again, now I'm tying three concepts together infinity loop, right action it advice, gratitude, right? So if you ask for feedback, and they they give you something great Express extreme gratitude, you go back, and you could come back to that person that you just said, Hey, thank you so much for sharing that one thing that you shared in our call, I actually made an adjustment to what I'm working on. And that was because of you. Thank you so much. Now what's happening is this person that you're asking for feedback on is getting involved with this product or idea that you are creating, and they're valuing it because they're co creating it with you, right? So like, so many offers that I built? And I'm doing this right now, it's like I want to come up with something and toss it off to someone and say, What are your thoughts on this? And because I don't even know if I hit the mark, you know, like I could be completely off on this thing.
And so I think it's weird because again, this concept of like hiding, and one too many, you can't hide in one to one. And it gives you an opportunity to actually build a relationship at the same time that somebody invests in your idea. So you walk away with a better product, you walk away with a deeper relationship, and they're more likely to want to join the thing, because they actually invested in participated in CO creating the thing. So that was a long story long answer a three part tie in. But hopefully that added value to what you were sharing.I mean, it does, it's so cool, because I feel like you have a framework for everything. And especially in this. It's like organic marketing, you have frameworks, and I don't know if you would look at it that way. But this is something that I so desperately want more people to know about. Because there's so many people teaching Instagram ads, there's so many people teaching how to create a 12 month content calendar. And it's like we're missing the point, right? shout it from the rooftops like you do. And I think this is so brilliant. And something that's fascinating that I see in you is that you're such a creative thinker and visionary. But you also have this systems based framework approach where you take the esoteric, Big Magic idea. And then you're like, No, this isn't magic, you can actually make it into a framework that anybody can learn. Anybody can build relationships. It's not because you or I are special or that we're like overly extroverted or just have this big network that we were born into. It's like when we really think about this logically. If you have a small network now and you want to meet more real awesome, connected people, there's got to be some things that are very consistent in people who are able to bridge that At gap, so for somebody who comes to you, and they say, I don't have a network, I don't know anyone, what is the one or two things that you would offer them? As a starting point? Like, do they just need to think of 100? people they know, do they need to meet one person? Like, what's a very tangible takeaway for the person who says, I just don't have that many connections?
Oh, man, okay. Because I just thought, as you were sharing, thank you for all those kind words, I really appreciate it. Because it's like, oh, man, I don't even realize that I do some of this stuff. But I thought of something that's, it's definitely doable. It's very valuable. And it's how I validated and built some of my own stuff. And if you do this, right, it will build relationships, it'll validate stuff, and you will, you'll walk away with a significantly deeper, higher quality product if you do something like this. So remember, we talked about curation at the very beginning, right? I've realized how important it is to describe the kind of people that you're curating. So if you've, if you've gone through Kelly's content, you understand the importance of like, defining your target avatar, and like all that kind of stuff, right. But even in the event that I created, that Kelsey came to, that was one of the reasons I think Kelsey came in, I don't want to toot my own horn, here, Kelsey, but like I talked about, it's like, I'm gonna curate it curiosity driven, deep connection focused, just like real human beings that are really high level entrepreneurs. And like, okay, that's curation. And that was valuable right then and there. So one thing I would encourage you to do is to get really clear on who it is that you're serving. But remember that the people that you're serving will find inherent value if you've curated a room that have people that are very similar to them. So that's that's an important insight right there. So one thing that I've done to validate and build an offer is say, This is who I've curated, right? And, and reach out to them and create an event where you are literally just a serving them, right and you you then in real time, you're testing your content. This is who's being curated at the end of whatever it is that you create, simply ask for them to fill out a survey at the end to help you improve it and do this in real time. By the way, don't say fill out the survey, at the end, carve out 510 minutes at the end of the experience, right. And again, I apologize if this is like too much of a high level strategy. And we can go deeper. But if you if you say this is who I'm curating this is who's coming, this is the results you're going to get at the end of this experience. I'm not charging for it. But I want to get your feedback at the end. They give feedback in the survey. And one of the final questions on the survey is would you be open to providing more feedback on a one on one conversation with this? And then you can go deep with the people that literally opt in and said yes. So this is again, now I'm tying back all the things that we talked about, right? Because AV E, you can say, hey, you know, I came across your posts on social media, it seems that you're working on this, thank you so much for sharing that that was super cool. I'm putting together a group of people right now that is curated based around these values. This is the result that we're going to do, I'm not charging for it. But my promise is that you'll walk away with this at the end, are you interested in me sending more information on on that they opt in, you create an event, you real time test your content, provide a survey at the end, they opt in to saying yes, I want to have a one on one conversation. And then you get feedback at the end. So it's kind of a more complex thing that I think you were looking for. But I've done this to validate offers, and it forces you to do so many things, it forces you to get good at connecting with people, it forces you to test your content in real time and deliver value. And you gather feedback and have the opportunity to go one on one and provide those kinds of validation conversations. So I've done this to validate, you know, different offers that I'm doing right now. And that's the exact structure that I use to make a better outcome at the end, develop deep relationships and get people to co create the experience on the way. I
think that everybody listening needs to go back and just rewind and listen, you verbally shared a really valuable template. They're like, hey, Brandon, I'm creating this thing. And it's meant to do X, Y, and Z. And I would love to do that chat with you. Or, you know, is this something you would ever be interested in? I think as human beings, I've noticed we are so scared of asking for feedback. Like most people that feels very uncomfortable to say, I have this idea. I want to start helping nutritionists to grow their business. And I want to do it this way. What do you think? So instead, we avoid the feedback loop and just create the thing and then again, we wonder why nobody's paying attention. So I think that was super, super valuable. And I want to double tap to you mentioned the retreat in Park City, Utah that you hosted this past summer. And I know that one of the main reasons why I said yes and got on a plane and took a week off work. and got myself in that incredible space with the people you curated, was because you created this one minute, I want to call it like a video. It wasn't anything like glamorous. It's not like it was a promo video, it was just you filming yourself on Zoom. And you shared the core values and the collective vision. And I knew that I didn't need to know all of the nitty gritty details, I just needed to know that I would be in a room of others who understood my challenges, and perhaps shared in my vision. It's so simple sometimes, like, we think we need to have these 1000 Page sales letters. But all I needed to hear was I'm going to be surrounded by people who get me and who are maybe working towards something similar. So yeah, I just think that it's so cool, how you were able to position that retreat, and then curate the exact right people like it was truly a magical group. So I am curious to go a little deeper on the retreat, because my listeners, listeners will know that in Episode 296, I shared a trip recap, I kind of debriefed everything, I'll link it in the show notes if anyone wants to listen. Why did you take the leap into hosting an in person gathering of visionaries of super connectors of people who had curiosity at one of their core values? And were there any surprising outcomes from hosting a three day retreat? mastermind?
Yeah. So I'll share, I'll share a quick story. So I haven't really shared this story that much. So it's November in Wisconsin, which is really cold. Yeah. And I'm walking up to Lake Michigan. And I'm slowly peeling off layers of clothing. And I'm starting to walk into this deep, cold water. And the few people around on the beach are like, Who the hell is this guy? And what the heck is he doing? Right? And so I get deeper and deeper into the water. And I just, I know you do ice fast? KLCC? No, no, this is like, but it's like, you know, time just slows in freezing cold water. And the reason why I got into that water that day is because I desperately wanted to feel something because I was at a really low point, like I just had a massive failure with a business partner. The partner was tied to a network of people that I thought were my friend. And so I didn't really know how to appreciate, you know, approach those relationships. And I had been working out in this business partnership for, you know, several months. And so it was like me stepping in the water was like, God, I just want to feel something like I just want to I just need to reset my body and just just figure out what the heck is going on. And so as I sat in that water, I it represents me saying, Okay, I need to I need to go back to the drawing board and figure out what the heck is going on. And that reset was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me, because I had to go back to the drawing board and ask those really hard questions. And those really questions are, what do I want? What are the hardest question to answer? What do I want? What are my core values? Water, my superpowers? Who do I want to serve? Those are all really hard questions to answer. And I'm not saying pull out a Google Doc and answer it in 10 minutes, I'm talking, I spent years answering these questions, right. And so I'm doing a really long winded answer to your question. But this was part of the why is because I did all the deep work and realize that what really brings me alive is seeing people that I love spending time together and connecting one of one of my superpowers is connection and curiosity, and, you know, creativity and communicating a big vision, right? And so I had to reset and I had basically that I treated it like a board game like if Brandon Fong was playing a game and he was a character in this board game. And these are his superpowers These are his strengths is what is wants? How do I design a game that Brandon Fong would win at right and so that is what I just kind of sat and I was like when what are all the pieces that need to fit together that would make the biggest win for the people that I want to serve, tap into all of my core values tap into all of my superpowers and put that into one spot. And so after like, forever of like digging these puzzle pieces together, I was like I need to do experiences for people and start bringing people together right and so that was the foundation of when I'm like okay, I need to start figuring this stuff out. So that was kind of like the why it was actually came from like I need to figure out and an aligned version of me. I think one of the biggest questions that we can all ask is how do we create an aligned business model, not the business model that works for everyone else, not what all the Guru's are saying and you talk about this all the time, Kelsey, but something that works for you. That is your natural expression of your gifts and your contributions to the world. And so that's a long winded answer to your question of why the heck What Why did you create this? And how did you curate around it? But to me this was, this was the representation of a year of hard work answering the deep questions and asking myself, How do I add massive value to people in alignment with my skill sets and contributions to the world. And I had had a conversation with my partner in this event, John Davey years ago, where he had wanted to do something similar. And when I kind of put all these puzzle pieces together, it just clicked. I'm like, That conversation I had with John like, three years ago, and I texted him, I'm like, Dude, did you ever do the thing? And he's like, No, I didn't. And I'm like, do you want to do the thing together? And so so that's when that's when that all kind of lined up, and we created that event? So hopefully that answers your question. But I think it's important to answer those deep questions, because that's where the gold comes from.
I think a lot of us resist answering those deep questions like, I think your story of just having what you would call a massive failure, we've all had something like that, perhaps in our journey. And oftentimes, like you can sit in that low for a long time, but refuse to face the questions that are actually going to help you move out of that hole. And you know, I don't know how long you kind of sat in that water or had to move about your life before you were willing to sit down and say, What do I want? If I'm creating the board game of brand and fog? You know, what are the puzzle pieces? Who is the character? It's the game of life, right? Like you get to build, that's the beauty about entrepreneurship. But when you're in the thick of it, and you've had a failure, or a deep loss or something of that nature, it can be really challenging to go, okay, clean slate, what do I want the next 12 months to look like? And to actually be in a headspace, where you're able to think beyond your current circumstances, is really, really hard. And I think to that something like what you hosted with John, a retreat, for anyone who is feeling stuck at all, just any resistance in your business, getting into a room of others at getting on a plane, taking time off of your regular routine, is actually what I find to be the most beneficial spend of time, anytime I'm feeling stuck or stagnant, or just like the energy is stale, or I'm experiencing some sort of sadness within the business. So hopefully, if you host more of these retreats down the line, you can share them with the visionary community, because what you created was so special. And it's kind of magic that can only happen when you get the right people in the right space. And sometimes there's an agenda and sometimes there's not. And things just unfold. That doesn't happen on zoom as often I found, yeah,
thank you. Thank you. And I'm so grateful that you came like what like, I just think back on that that event so fondly. We had like, at the end, we had everyone create, we created these challenger coins. I don't know if you still have yours, Kelsey, or whatever it is. But we bought, we bought these blank coins that we had people stamp a word on there that felt like represent their experience. So the word that I wrote on mine was bliss, because it just brought me so much joy to see people together. And like I have this, this isn't really going anywhere besides just like one of the things that stuck out is when we made dinner the first night together. And this first day people weren't really allowed to share what they did. So like there was just like this group of this group of people that like didn't really fully know the full story, but it was kind of like unfolding. And you know, I just remember you and David making dinner together and like David got cilantro up his nose or something. And you guys were making the samosas together. And so that just brings me so much happiness. So I yeah, that's not going anywhere. Besides the fact that I appreciate you for coming. And it was so much fun. It
was so much fun. I don't think it was the launcher. I think he actually got jalapeno. Oh,
yeah, that way worse. It was something there
level of torture when you touch the inner part of your nose or the jalapeno seeds. Oh, my goodness. So Brandon, as we start to close out on today's interview, I am curious what's lighting you up right now? What is sparking your curiosity. And in fact, I love in the intro of your podcast, you state that you chat with adventurous people who are taking voyages into the unknown and they're looking to satisfy their curiosity, fulfill their purpose, bring their ideas to life. So I know that you're someone who's always kind of thinking about the future. So I guess my first question then is what is a current voyage you are taking into something unknown or into something that's really lighting you up right now?
Oh, man, I'm deep in the unknown. I love the unknown. I I ran a Spartan Ultra earlier on in this year. It's a 34 mile 60 obstacle race and like when you sign up for those things, you're like, I have no idea how I'm going to do that. But you do it right. So I think you have to sometimes put these things out there that it's just like I have I, I legit have no idea how the heck this is gonna happen. Yeah. So anyways, one of the things that's really lighting me up right now is I had this vision right before our in person event because I was at another event before that. But I just had this idea of like, I had so much fun hosting that event at Park City, I want to continue doing more of these. And so a keystone goal I've been thinking a lot about is, I want to spend my 30th birthday, which will be February 21 2026, on Curiosity Island, the island doesn't exist. I don't know where it is, it doesn't happen. But I want to bring together 50 humans that I love very much celebrate my 30th birthday and hosted an incredible event. And that to me represents to the community that I'm building that is going to actually support and be there a part of that event. So I'm in the middle of doing that. That's lighting me up right now. And the other thing that I do is I run expeditions. So these are guests exclusive experiences that that people can go on. And it's crazy what I'm doing. I've never heard anyone do this before, right? So this is unknown. And hopefully this is but I am creating a story based mastermind experience. And it is just I can go into I know we're kind of wrapping into it. But like It's wild. Like it's it's just seeing people putting people that are really high level in a space of play. Have fun. I literally shipped them stuff that they unwrapped before each section and I sent them some wild stuff that you would not think would be but but I have some of it sitting on my desk. There's little dragons, the little pink dragons, right? Like little stupid toilets. Right? But these are, yeah, so So I'm doing that right now. And I've never seen that done before. But it was another one of those questions board game questions like, Okay, let me tap into my curiosity, my intrigue, my, my, my vision of putting somebody into a story, let me create something, and I'm just having so much fun. It just it's it's insane that I get paid to do this kind of stuff. Because I'm like, I literally just thought I pulled this stuff right out my butt. And you guys are paying me money to go through this experience I created. And they're having so much fun that are developing so much deep relationships. So long winded answer, but curiosity Island expeditions, those are two things that I just didn't know, I don't know how they're going to happen, or part of it being figured out. But the road is unfolding as I continue walking down it. So
exciting. And I know one thing that led you to really solidify the fact that you are curious, you are somebody who explores ways to curate great, great groups of people, because you did all of these StrengthsFinder tests and personality tests. And I think that's such a, it's something that maybe we've all done when we started a job and our manager asked us to do this. But I often find that every couple years, it is really valuable to take one of the tests and really dissect the results and say, Have I leveraged all of my top strengths or skill sets in what I'm creating, because I think we forget, like maybe one of my skills is that I'm playful, but my business is very rigid. And there's nothing fun about my course materials. And then you can ask yourself, Wait a second, if I'm really naturally gifted at bringing that playful energy, what can I do to bring that into the next iteration of my offer? So I know that's something you're passionate about. Maybe we'll geek out on a future episode. But yeah, person has talked so much about that. So really help you out? Yeah. Is there anything you would suggest for somebody who maybe hasn't taken a test or who doesn't really understand their own strengths at this point?
One of my favorite quotes is you can't read the label from inside the jar. If you were sitting inside of a pickle jar right now, you could not read the nutrition facts on the outside. Our strings are so close to us that you discount the value of them. So that's the biggest thing I would say, Yes, take those tests. But yes, take them seriously. Because like, people, you know, buddy, No, you listen this right now, nobody has your string skill sets experience story life, and it is so unique. It is so valuable. It can contribute so much to the world. And the biggest thing is you have to give yourself permission that it's valuable to begin with. And so I wouldn't discount that question I gave earlier if your life was a board game, and you were a character, how would you design the game for you to win? It's a really powerful question because you step outside of yourself.
But that's literally one of the catalysts of me coming up with that question is I took all the tests I've taken, I put them in a Google Doc, I got a 60 page, Google Doc and I was like, okay, here are all the different variables that are showing up over and over and over again, how do I create with this container? So yeah, I would highly encourage you guys go take that if you want a free one. Just go to eight principles. You that's a really good one. That's Ray Dalio is company that it does that. That might be a good one, but I can obviously give some more recommendations and couldn't recommend it highly enough. Well,on that note, if people want recommendations if they want to get into to your world if they want to find more about the podcast that you host, where are all the places that they can find you and make a real connection with you?
Oh, man, okay, so shout out to my friend at Blake fruit fly that is also your friend as well, because he's got me super onto these multiple choice things. I literally just turned my LinkedIn bio into a multi multiple choice experience. Go check it out. It's I published it yesterday, and so much fun. So I'm gonna give you guys listening right now multiple choice options, and you can choose your adventure on how you would like to move forward. So Option A is you're just grateful. And you're excited that you spent the time with Kelsey and I today. And I appreciate that so much, and you don't do anything, which is totally cool. Option B is go check out beyond curious. Kelsey and I are recording an episode right after this with her. So maybe we can tie in the episodes of combat, I don't know if that will work. But if that doesn't, the timing doesn't work out on that I would recommend you check out episode 140. A, that will go through lots of the stuff that we talked about. It's one of the most valuable episodes I've produced. So that's Option B, Option C, I'm doing another bluefly thing. I've never done this before on a podcast, but text them and I will I will recommend a podcast episode for you to listen to if you share what you're working on. And this is not a software number that's gonna go to my support team. This is literally the number that when when Kelsey texted me and said, you know, she sent me a video of her and Abby, her dog walking this morning. This is that phone number, right? So shoot me a text and I will recommend a specific episode, my number is 262-893-4578. And I'd be happy to give you a specific episode and I whether you choose to do A, B or C, I appreciate you so much and really grateful for your time today.
This was so much fun. Thank you so much, Brandon, for all of the wisdom, you shared all of the frameworks that we can go back and listen to and perhaps choose one framework and start applying it to the way that we connect and build our businesses. And then to text you with feedback. Now that we have your phone number, we can spam you again, for a good episode recommendation. So thank you so much, Brandon, for being on the visionary life podcast, and we wish you all the best.
Oh, man, thank you so much, Kelsey. And like I said in the beginning, you guys are in the right spot if you're listening to Chelsea's voice right now. So Kelsey, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for doing your homework. This was so much fun. And thank you guys for listening. I'm really grateful for you spending the time with us today.
Had to interrupt this episode to let you know that over on the visionary Life Blog, we have created so many free resources for you to help you live your best life to stay motivated as an entrepreneur and to dial in your marketing strategy. Right now, if you head over to Kelsey rydell.com/blog. You can access free content like marketing strategies for you to test in the next 12 months that don't cost a penny and that actually work. We have a blog on how to track important SEO metrics, and to monitor your traffic to see if you're ranking on Google, we have something called the 10 essential elements of writing a blog post. You don't want to miss that one. We talked about five easy ways to grow your coaching business 10 marketing strategies to attract more clients and exceptional women owned small businesses that you don't want to miss out on. So there's so much content head over to Kelsey reidl.com/blog. Pick one to start with and let me know which one resonates with you. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of visionary life. I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis. So it would mean so much to me. If you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show on either iTunes or Spotify. It just takes a second. And if you don't want to rate the show, you can also just take a screenshot of the episode and share it on your social media platform of choice tagging me at Kelsey Reidl. I'll catch you in the next episode.
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