214 Don’t Settle: How To Find What You’re Truly Passionate About | Amanda Hudson
Say Hello to this weeks guest, Amanda Hudson, the Founder of A Modern Way To Work.
Tune into this weeks episode…
Today on the show I am sitting down with Amanda Hudson, who is the Founder of A Modern Way To Work.
Today’s guest is Amanda Hudson the Founder and CEO of A Modern Way To Work (an HR Consultancy)
Amanda is a double-board certified HR expert with 20 years of experience in people management who founded A Modern Way to Work as an antidote to outdated HR thinking. She and her team work with Canadian SMEs – many women-founded and operated.
Throw in an executive MBA, almost 20 years of people management, plus a sixth sense for problem solving and you’ve got the credibility behind her consultancy A Modern Way To Work.
In our conversation, we talk about:
The many ‘layers’ to her career and how it ultimately led to Entrepreneurship
Her ‘Fierce Independence’ and how that led her through her journey
How she knew it was the right time to quit her Full Time Job and start the business
The journey of connecting and ultimately working with some Big Name Brands like Nike, Chapters Indigo, Province, Apothecary, The TEN SPOT, and Enthusiast Gaming
Why she left the traditional HR professional track in pursuit of her own business
Why it’s NOT essential to find your niche right away, contrary to popular belief
The ONE question she asks to everyone on an airplane
The interesting ways in which she hired her Team Members
Why 90% of what you’re doin you don’t need to do
Connect with A Modern Way To Work & Amanda:
Website: https://www.amodernwaytowork.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amodernwaytowork/
Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or YouTube
Let’s connect on Instagram or find out more about Private Business & Marketing Coaching on my Website
Click the image below to tune in to this weeks episode 🎙️
You’re going to LOVE this episode with Amanda!
Here’s a sneak peak at my prep notes for the show…
Where you started:
Spent 10 years teaching HR to students at a college, take us back to that time - why did HR and teaching become your career?
You had mostly full-time jobs throughout your career, but always had side gigs and created new opportunities for yourself. Yu say that “My grandmother was an entrepreneur and my parents worked for themselves so that the spirit of entrepreneurship was instilled in me from a young age”
Do you remember what characteristics and qualities you saw in your grandparents and parents that made up that entrepreneurial spirit
Did you always know that you wanted to started a business
Each time that I get on my plane, I ask myself, “If I crashed, would I be happy with how I’ve been living my life?” After Seneca College became comfortable, I felt that it was time to leave and pursue my own dream.
A Modern Way To Work:
What is A Modern Way To Work & when did the lightbulb moment go off that this was an idea to start building?
What were some of the first steps you took to bring your consultancy to life?
You say that you are an antidote to outdated HR thinking! Is this what makes you different from other HR firms?
Something you do is that you disclose salary on the job posting (won’t work with clients who won’t do this) - have you ever been met with resistance when you stand strong in the values of your work?
How did you find your first client / clients? Give us the specifics.
Today you have a client list like Nike, Chapters Indigo, Province, Apothecary, The TEN SPOT, and Enthusiast Gaming - how did you get connected to so many epic companies and what are some tips for landing big name clients?
A Modern Way To Work isn’t just you - you have a team! Tell us about your team and how you found the right people to support your vision
Marketing:
What is your most effective marketing / growth strategy right now
How do you set up your workweek as a leader and entrepreneur? Any success tips for staying focused and working towards big goals rather than being caught in the daily grind
What’s one thing you’re geeking out on or learning more about, right now?
Or watch us on YouTube! 👇
🎙️ Other ways to listen…
Episode Transcript:
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You're listening to the visionary life podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey. Reidl, we're hanging out here today because one day, while hiking in Peru, after just having been let go from my dream job, it hit me. There's so much more to life and there's no excuse for not embracing uncertain. And trying new things to really explore our full potential in this lifetime.
On this weekly podcast, you'll hear from successful entrepreneurs, creative thinkers, and visionary, just like you, so that you feel less alone as you pursue everything you want and deserve in this lifetime. This is a space where big sky thinking is welcomed and conversations about it's daily. Betterment are essential.
So if. Stop living an ordinary life and start living a visionary life than welcome home.
Hey visionaries. Welcome back to the podcast. I am so excited about today's episode, but before we dive in, if I sound a little fatigued just for this intro, not for the podcast recording it's because today I finished my very first bike race of the season. It was called the Paris to Ann caster. Gravel roads.
It was mud shoots. It was grueling Rocky climbs. So it was a little bit of everything, but so much fun. And I just adore the challenge of doing something that puts me kind of out of my comfort zone, you know, so I'll definitely be signing up for a few more races and would love to hear about your summer goals.
But that's not what we're chatting about today. Today. We're actually chatting about human resources. Yes. It's time for you and me to have a meeting with our HR expert, Amanda, but don't worry. This is going to be a fun meeting. So, uh, in all six. Today's guest is Amanda Hudson. And she's been working in HR for over 20 years.
Amanda actually started her own company, which is why I wanted to interview her on the podcast. And it's called a modern way to work, which is the antidote to traditional HR practices. So cool. Right? Like she's taken something that traditionally people see as boring. Not that fun, not that interesting. And she created a company that flipped that on its head and.
In this episode, we're going to talk about why she left the traditional HR professional track in pursuit of building her own business. I think this is going to be specifically relevant to any of you who are feeling like you've come to an end in your corporate career, and you'll learn a lot from Amanda about what it took to actually step away from the paved path and build your own thing.
So I know you guys will love it. We talk about why it's not essential to find your niche right away, contrary to popular belief. She shares the one question that she asks to everybody on an airplane, this one's intriguing. Um, and she also shares the interesting ways in which she hired team members. I was very inspired by the way, Amanda hires at her company.
So I definitely love this episode for so many reasons, but one of the reasons that. It brought me back to my own roots because I actually studied human resources in my undergraduate degree. And I envisioned becoming an HR professional back in the day, but just couldn't quite imagine myself on that track.
And I feel like I would have loved to work for Amanda's company, um, you know, 15 years ago. So. Anyways, without further ado. I think we should dive into this episode with Amanda Hudson. If you want to learn more about her company, go to www.amodernwaytowork.com. You can find all the social channels from.
And if you love this episode, be sure to snap a screenshot, tag me tag a modern way to work. We love seeing where you're tuning in from. So let's do the show and I will catch you guys next week.
Amanda. Welcome to the visionary. Podcast. I was connected to you my absolute favorite way, which is through a referral. So someone we both mutually know connected us, and it's always so wonderful to be able to record a first conversation with buddy. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being.
Thank you for having me. So I kind of want to rewind your journey a little bit. You spent 10 years, I believe teaching human resources to students at college. Did I get that right? And was that, uh, like a decade of your life? Yeah,
that was a part of the journey for sure. I have, I often will say like I had layers to my career.
That were happening all at the same time. So there was the traditional HR track working in and with organizations on bettering their HR practices. I started teaching part-time, uh, very shortly after I actually graduated from college. It did have an almost 10 year career before I say retired. Um, so I taught at college and university and then also manage the school of business up at Seneca for a while.
Um, and that did take up a large, large chunk of time. Um, and then I found, I thought the students were getting worse, which probably meant my patients was wearing. So I decided to retire before I became a, you know, a grumpy professor. Um, and then there's sort of like this third track of, um, advising for tech companies and working with some startup.
Mm, I love that. So throughout that time, did you feel like you had the entrepreneurial bug kind of like boiling up and were you thinking, how do I leave this more traditional track of teaching in pursuit of my own business? When did that entrepreneurial spark really start?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So. More than calling it an entrepreneurial spark, I would call it like maybe a fierce independence, um, where I just like wanted to do things my own way. Um, and always have been someone who's questioned the way things have been done. And so that generally makes you a really bad employee. Uh, and when I moved to Toronto, my intention was to, you know, launch into full-time consultant.
And my last real job was as the associate chair for the school of business at Seneca. And that happened accidentally. So I come to Toronto, am expecting to launch, you know, my consulting business. I go and do a presentation for the deans of all the schools of business across Ontario. And one of them asked me to interview for that job.
And so I did. I got it. I took it. So it kind of deviated me a little bit off that entrepreneurial journey or worked there for about a year and a half. Uh, really proud of some of the massive change transformation projects they did there. And then. I just felt like it was time to really go do what I actually wanted to do.
So like, yeah, it could, you could call it entrepreneurial bug. Um, but I think it's more been inspired by wanting to do things my own way or having a perspective potentially on HR. I didn't see really represented and thought, okay, well, if other people aren't going to go do it, I'll go out and do it.
I love that.
And so nice to hear like your journey. Wasn't just linear. Like I just, I just knew what business I wanted to create. Like it takes time and sometimes, you know, you do have to go work other jobs to really marinate in, like, what do I want to do? And what is my unique viewpoint? Like I had a similar journey.
I would sit in these marketing meetings, working for more corporate companies. And I would share these ideas that I thought were really good. And they'd be like, no, that's never going to work. And I'm like, I know it's going to work, but I would just sit there and bite my tongue. And eventually I worked up that courage to say, okay, well, if nobody else is kind of teaching this version of marketing, same as what you had, maybe I can do it.
And I think you said, like, you finally knew it was time to kind of step out. It's such a hard thing to unpack, but like, how did you know it was time. What was that inner feeling or what were some of those validating thoughts that you were like, I can do this. Now's the time to quit and make the leap?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I want to say one other quick thing that re referenced what you were just chatting about though. I think you get a lot of pressure, especially when you start to like find your niche and maybe you, I'm curious if you felt this, when you kind of launched out on your own people, like, what are you doing?
What is your niche? And back to your non-linear comment, which made me think of. There wasn't one thing I think, um, you start taking the contracts that come to you and saying kind of yes, to everything. And it's taken eight years to really, you know, solidify that. But, um, I'll answer, I'll answer the question you did ask me, how did I know?
Um, there, I, I, I traveled a lot, obviously pre pre 2020, um, And I am a futuristic thinker and I think a lot about, you know, my legacy and what I want to do when I was on an airplane. And I was like, oh, if this airplane crashed, uh, would I be happy with how I'm living my life right now? And, and that role at Seneca didn't feel like the most fulfilling in that moment.
I worked with the most incredible faculty there ever. Um, And I think that's what made it hard to leave. And I, and they were obviously quite a bit older than me. Um, many of them, you know, later in their careers sort of tenure tenured faculty. And when I made the choice to leave, they were all like, great go.
Like there's so much out, out in the world. So it was a nice reassurance. Um, but I think it was just like a check-in like, am I happy? Am I doing what I want to be doing? And there was just that little, no inside me. And so that really. That really was the push. And I was fortunate, like I had some part-time teaching contracts and a little bit of consulting work on the side and I took the leap and over the last eight years have really just grown and developed the business to where it is to.
I love that question that you share. Uh, the thing that you think of when you're on a plane, if I crashed what I'd be happy with, how I've been living my life, like it is kind of like an existential moment to answer that question, because if the answer is no, I would not be happy with the way I've been living or honoring that gut feeling like that's a bit of a wake-up call.
And I think, you know, and I hear from so many of our listeners. They do feel like they're at this point of stagnancy and they're unhappy and they feel too young to be at this point where life is just mediocre, but it's also really challenging to imagine breaking out of their current routine. And doing something different.
Do you have any tips for somebody who is feeling that way, maybe like you were feeling, um, and how to successfully, um, you know, pivot or make a shift in their life?
Yeah, that's a, I mean, it's so easy to say when you've done it. So I do really honor people when they want to do something different and they feel a bit stuck.
I met a friend, gave me advice a while ago in the startup space about like, what's the smallest experiment you can do, or the smallest test you can run. Around the idea or the product or the thing that you want to do in the world. And I think you can take that even into your own entrepreneurial journey.
So I think it gets portrayed a lot. Um, and I'm sure that you see this a lot where it's like, It's one or the other, like you have to have this really dramatic, like quitting of your job and starting your own business and, you know, announcing it to your friends and family via social. And I actually think it can be a lot smaller and a lot more subtle than that.
I think, you know, if you're a marketing person, you can go out and help a couple of small businesses with marketing. It doesn't, you don't even have to get paid initially, you know, To just, what's the smallest viable test you can run. And I actually think that rather than, you know, tips around some, you know, follow your heart and quit your job and, you know, pretend you don't have bills to pay.
It's like, what's the smallest step you could possibly take in the direction of where you want to go. And then I think that small step leads to another and to another and to another. And before, you know, it you'll look up and your life will be doing.
It's such a good perspective because I think oftentimes people think they need to like sever one life and then just like launch into this entrepreneurial journey.
But it's like, maybe you can mitigate a lot of that risk and not put so much financial strain on yourself. Test the concept first, like maybe get your first client and put up like a little shell of a website and see are people interested in what I have to share. Right. So it sounds like that's kind of how you got your company a modern way to work started.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about a modern way to work and then we'll dive into more of the nitty gritty on where you guys are at today. Yeah,
so a modern way to work the best way to scratch, to describe it as an HR and people management consultancy. So we work predominantly with small and medium businesses, sometimes teams that larger businesses.
Um, but really I think doing HR in a way that most people aren't doing, um, which, you know, begs the question. What does that, what does that mean? Um, so we. Some of our core fundamental beliefs is that HR is only as good or as useless as the people managers within an organization. And so I'm sure in your past life working for others in marketing, you've probably had some excellent bosses.
I'm assuming had some not so great.
100%, yes. Okay.
Yeah. Do you want to name them? No, I'm kidding. Yeah. They know who they are. Um, and so, you know, our belief is HR is only as good or as bad as those people managers. So when we work with clients, we really focus on the people leadership team and the senior.
And we've built leadership training that we run monthly to really teach managers the skills that they need to lead and manage teams from a very practical, tangible perspective. We also then go in and build the systems and structures that support them to do their jobs well. And, you know, as an example, I don't want to jinx it, but we haven't been asked to write a policy by a client for a very long time.
So I think there's a lot of HR consulting firms. You know, it's very lucrative to like go in, write policies, do that kind of work. I think where, where we see that modern HR and business savvy, neat. It's, you're living in the trenches with those people managers and teaching them how to get the most out of their teams.
And that's where we really, I think come in and help organizations transform how they operate and then we get out. We don't want them to be dependent on us. So I believe that if HR. Actually aren't needed at all. And so you're, you set everything up and then you can, you can exit because the people managers know what they're doing.
They've got the right systems and structures to support the behaviors that lead to engagement, and you can move on to the next thing.
Um, so what were some of the very first things you did? Like when you decided I am going to launch a modern way to work. What were some of those first foundational things that you spent time on in order to bring this new business idea to life?
Do you remember what some of those first steps were?
Yeah. Good question. It wasn't even called a modern way to work back then. I make I'm terrible at naming things. Arguably a modern way to work. If you think about it, like logo and branding wise, when we work with designers, it's probably not the world's best name.
It's quite long. So like, Kelsey, I feel like you've probably, you know, if I had been smarter, I would've worked with someone on that at the start like yourself. Um, I think for me, I'm a big, you know, who do I know what's my network? Who can they meet? So my real first steps were to connect in with people I already knew who were looking for some HR support.
Um, I was fortunate enough through a couple other jobs that I had had and through my MBA to make some consulting connections, um, and to do projects with friends, just because we found them fascinating for some nonprofits. So to be honest, most of our clients, when we started we're in the nonprofit space and a lot of nonprofits in Canada.
Uh, fewer than 10 employees. And so they don't have dedicated HR resources and they were reaching out and needing some help. So we just said yes to whatever, whatever people needed help with to be.
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Find out what your earning potential is at www.kelseyrydall.com/earning petition. Yeah. And it's funny because so many of the clients that I work with, they think that in launching a predominantly online business service-based business, that all of a sudden they can just like put their services out there and they're going to reach people across the globe and this like influx of clients from like Australia and Europe and north America are going to come in.
But oftentimes it is. Tapping into your initial connections, first friends, family, past jobs that you've had, who might benefit from you as a consultant, um, you know, connections you might have in your hometown or whatever it is. It's like, you can't really just like skip to like 10 degrees of separation.
You have to focus on who do you already know who could benefit from your services? And I always think of like connecting with people from the past. From the present and then future, where do I want to go? So it sounds like you were able to do that probably as a way to validate, like, okay, people do actually need these HR services.
I've got a few projects under my belt and now we can start to promote to more and more.
Yeah, you nailed it. Um, I wish you could do the, you know, I heard somewhere recently, it's like, it takes 10 years to become an overnight success. So I'm like, wait, great. We're at year eight, like only a couple more years.
Um, and we'll, we'll be that overnight success, but I think everyone aims for when they do a launch, like.
Yeah. And today you work with clients like Nike chapters in to go province, apothecary, the 10 spot enthusiast gaming. I'm sure people hear that list. And they're like, I would die to have clients like that.
Like just more high profile, sexy brand names that you've worked with. So that begs the question. How did you get in touch with some of these more established brands who have that credibility that lends to a modern way to work? So can you like share the journey of how you were able to connect with some of those bigger brands?
Yeah. I think we try really hard on our website. You know, we do work with like a team at Nike, a team at indigo, and I think, you know, it's, I dunno, I always want to be like really accurately represent, um, what we do. So yeah. Those names are definitely in our, in our roster. You know, we work with Julia Natta province, like, um, and it has been through micro step, you know, and micro step.
And I think, I feel really fortunate that. Knock on wood to date, not really done a lot of marketing, to be honest, we've just started thinking a bit more about how do we intelligently get our message out in front of more people, but for the last, you know, seven years, 11. We hadn't, we hadn't done that. And so I think a couple of things, we, we showed up to every client, whether they were Nike or whether they were a nonprofit in like rural Ottawa, um, with the same energy and love for that organization.
And we focused on just adding value and doing great work. And even in the early days when I started, um, like hiring some of my first team members, there was a lot of ambiguity about what we did. You know, conversations we were having. And our number one driver was just show up and add value. And we focus less on how much money we were making, what we were charging, what the actual project was.
And we were just driven by this idea of like showing up and adding value. And I think, you know, people know people who know people and so you show up and you add value in one place. You show up in your add value somewhere else. To be honest, one of our biggest drivers of business, um, I won't out, I won't out them, but they're an organization who's, who's never, you know, really paid us for any work.
It was a female entrepreneur I got connected with who needed some help and we, and we just stayed connected and, and they're very well connected. And so that then led to, to meeting some of these great.
Well, and I think that's just, it it's like, no matter who the client is, you need to show up, deliver that remarkable product because that is marketing a good product markets itself.
Right? So if you have some tiny client who is in rural, rural Ottawa, you show up for them the same way as you would a high profile client, because maybe that client. In Ottawa has an amazing network. And they're about to refer you to 10 others. And you don't, you don't know that. So you have to show up with that same energy enthusiasm and just good work ethic as you would any other client, because like has happened for you.
That can be your sole marketing strategy for a while. Is if you do good work, right. Get them the results they're looking for. And people talk about.
And then I think even too, you know, I think we've made some of the most impactful outcomes with the smaller clients who you wouldn't necessarily like read out, you know, in a podcast or that, you know, we don't put their logos like front and center necessarily on our website.
Um, those people, I think if you're focused on impact, you can actually have a lot more impact with smaller clients than you can, you know, work with. You know, when one small group of people at Nike, as an example, there's a lot more ability to influence and change the organization. And so I love those small clients and I particularly love small predominantly women led businesses because there's just so much great work that can be done there.
And I think they, they care so much about their. Uh, in the world. And so when they meet consultants who care as much about them being successful as they do, it's like a really nice synergy. I always joke, but I don't lose sleep. I never lose sleep over my own business. I like will lose, sleep over thinking about like something that happened, you know, or like something going on for one of my clients in their.
Um, yeah,
that's funny. Cause I just woke up this morning. Uh, and the first thing I thought of was a client that I have, and I had to like log on to our project management software and tell her right away, I was like, have you considered doing this? And I was just like jolted awake with this idea. I'm like, okay, Kelsey, you really need to like do some meditation in the morning before you start going into work mode.
But it's true. Like we
care, that's the consultant you want. You thinking about our brand and our marketing. That's exactly. He wants the people that wake up in the morning and are thinking about.
So you mentioned you've been in business approximately eight years, right? And your main marketing strategy and how you found client clients has been tapping into your existing network and then getting referrals from others. And I think you mentioned now, you're starting to think about like, how do we continue to grow, uh, and launch this rocket.
What are some of the other ways that you are getting more visible as a consultancy or just getting the name out there? Are you testing anything? Has anything been working for you or have you been pondering any marketing efforts that you want to indulge? Yeah.
I don't know that any of it's working we've spent, like, I think, you know, we spent last year, we had no social media presence at all.
Wow. Um, so we spent our, our one team goal last year was to put enough content on social channels that if people came to our Instagram, they'd get a sense of who we are, who our team is. There'd be advice there there'd be value for people there. Um, you know, do we have like 400 followers maybe. You know, I think, I think it's really about, it's interesting our social efforts, remind our past clients that we exist.
And so I'll often hear from them going, oh, I saw this post, it reminded me of this, and I want to connect you with so-and-so or we have this new piece of work we want to do. So that's really interesting. And I'd love your take on that. Cause I think. People think social is going to really expand their network.
And for us, what we found, it's reminding people who already know us that we're there.
Yeah. I think that's like a very important part of the customer journey. And it sounds like, so when we think of the consumer journey, they become aware of you, they investigate you, they compare you, then they work with you.
And then part of the journey after they work with you is staying in touch so that you get the referral. Right. So it sounds like social for you is actually serving an interesting bucket, not necessarily in getting new clients through the door, but being part of that referral process. Right. Because it's a trigger every time I see your social posts to be like, oh yeah, they helped me so much.
And oh my God, I was just out for a glass of wine with my friend who owns the local coffee shop and they're expanding. And she said she needs an HR person. I'll just quick tag them under Amanda's post. Right. And that is invaluable. So I think, yeah, it may, social may not serve the initial purpose you thought it did, but I bet it's still a really crucial part of maintaining contact and getting the advocacy and referral of past clients.
So I think that's really interesting as a case study. Yeah. Like
that, that's how it's working for us. And I think we. Incredible clients. And in marketing, you know, marketing agencies and firms, and they're really generous with their advice. And, you know, we, we have digital courses online for managers and, you know, we were chatting with one of, one of the humans that we really admire who runs an agency in Toronto.
And he's like, you've got to think of your social and digital journey as like a three to five year journey. And I was like, okay. You know, I think that's been really helpful. It's so. Where we finished. You're one of a three to five-year journey, um, of, uh, building a community online, who didn't already know us.
And, um, so that's a big one. And then I think our focus this year is really things like this. Getting out more on podcasts and writing articles, like sharing our message. I think we have a really unique perspective on HR. So finding ways and opportunities to be able to do that. So a thank you for being part of that for us this year.
And, um, other than that, just like keeps showing up and doing great work and keeps showing up and doing great work for our clients.
I love what that person said to you about it's a three to five-year journey. We're playing the long game here. Right? So to expect that all of a sudden a new marketing channel is just going to have instant success is completely unreasonable.
If you think your business is going to be around for the next 10, 20 years, then give your social three to five years. And that's how long it takes. Some people have that hockey stick growth, they get on tech talk and all of a sudden they're selling thousands of products, but it's like, oh yeah. They're like the 1% that, you know, right place, right time.
The rest of us have to continue to show up and frequency and consistency, breeds, trust and clients. So eventually. They will need your services. And because you're always top of mind by posting, they will reach out when they're ready. Right. We can't convince people. They need HR like today. Um, so yeah, I think that's
cool.
I think because it's like, I sometimes feel like we're in this weird B2B, but B to C space. So mostly who reaches out to us are business owners. So in that way it feels B to C, but they are asking about their businesses. And there's a lot of really great HR content on Tik TOK on Insta, but it's really meant for the end user, like the employee who's had like bizarre experiences with their managers or in interviews, and that's not really our target right.
Or target is the managers, the business owner who feels incredibly overwhelmed. And so the narrative, I think. Most managers now come to us and this is really their story. It's I started a business, you know, you can like, you can take prophecy, province apothecaries and example, you know, Julie started making, um, really beautiful, uh, clean skincare products, you know, in her kitchen.
Um, and she tells that story really widely on their website and, and her goal was. To go manage a team of 50 people and have an operations facility. And, and so a lot of our, our clients are like that. They start with a passion or something that they're really interested in from, you know, cannabis regulation, to beauty and skincare, to running a marketing agency PR and they, they find themselves being really successful and then they have to hire a team.
And the minute they hire the team, their job shifts from doing what they love to do to now having to produce results through other people. And that's a whole other job. And, and we, we meet them when they're kind of at that, um, point of realizing that that's actually their job now. Um, and that, that takes an incredible amount of time and patients and their own resources.
And we kind of teach them how to, how to accept that number one, um, and how to set themselves up in their team ops so that they can achieve all of their bigger goals. But now through the incredible group of people that they've hired.
I think that's so powerful because yeah, like I'm sure many of your clients, the reason they got into business was not to be managing a team.
They are just really gifted at their craft, but as they start to grow and hire people and, you know, have to produce more. They do need to shift their focus. And that's where I think a business like yours comes in because you can totally like alleviate that pressure of also them trying to be the HR person, the marketing person, the sales person, the admin person.
So it's so nice to be able to work with a team like yours, just to completely like take that off of their plate so they can focus on their craft. This episode is sponsored by the visionary method. The visionary method is a seven step system. That's going to help you create and launch your business successfully.
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yeah, I actually feel like we, we. Unfortunately, we can't take it all off. And, and maybe that's like a good point of distinction where we, the minute you have employees, they have expectations of you as their manager.
Yeah. And they're often unstated. And if you look, if you want to be really nerdy about it, and I think this is where my teaching background comes in, you can look at the research of employee engagement in the science of that. Your employees have expectations on you. Um, and as a business owner, you know, this firsthand, there's so much, you're thinking about external to the business, and then you now have this group of humans who want your time and attention.
And I think that often people think if they hire HR or an HR consulting firm, that those HR people can meet those needs of the team. And in fact we can't, unfortunately, because they want them from you, the manager, whoever they perceive to be their manager. And so a lot of our work is teaching those managers that their role is to focus on the team, but also how to use that time efficient.
So a lot of managers, we find they're flailing because they're like, I'm trying to do everything to make the team happy, but like nothing seems to be working. And in our modern manager's intensive, which is our monthly leadership program, we teach them like, here's, here's where to invest your time and your team to get what you want out of that.
Um, and I think it's really helpful for people because they can be really efficient with their time that they spend with their team versus like that flailing, like trying to keep them
happy. Yeah. Oh, so cool. I love that you offer that. What'd you call it a modern way to manage
modern managers
intensive modern managers intensive.
Very cool. We'll have to link that in the show notes. Okay. So I'm curious now this business is more than just you. So can you describe what your team looks like today and who supports the big vision of a modern way to work? Like what does that team look like?
Yeah, I think I have the best team in the whole world.
You would hope like that's what we do. We help people figure out how to hire and, um, keep people engaged. So. One of our very first employees, that's actually her last week, next week after six years. So bittersweet. But, um, she, uh, I'll tell the story since she's on her way out, but she was a student of mine and cornered me in the bathroom after class when one day, and was like, Hey, can I come work for you?
Um, and, and so, you know, worked with her through the startup and, and, you know, big portion of her career now. Um, Initially, like the first few people we met, it was really organic. So Leanna who joined us, she was my student, Carrie, who I work with. She and I worked together and my very first job, um, many, many years ago.
And she went off and did a whole bunch of really cool gigs was the sole HR person at some gaming companies worked for Blackberry. She had a few kids. And then after she had her twins, she was thinking about getting back into, into the labor market and we connected. And she's like, you know, I'm thinking in a year, like maybe if you have a role.
And I think I had her working on a project within a month because I was like, okay, like I know how bright she is. And so if she was willing to come work with me, that I wasn't waiting a year, I wasn't going to risk. And then the other person who, who really, we treat like a partner in the business. Uh, Stevie, she heard me on a podcast, um, my friend Tiffany's podcast, um, and she lives in Austin, Texas, and she has an art background, which is how she was following.
I think Tiffany at the time, her to be on that podcast came and took the modern managers intensive. And at the end, I think was really upset. It was over. And reached out and was like, what if Navy we work together? And so I flew down to Texas for five days and we spent five days, I think, kind of just like eating and doing workout classes together and getting to know one another.
Awesome. Yeah. Um, and, and then she joined the business a few years ago. I feel like maybe these details are so boring, but I feel so impassioned by it. Cause I love this team and all the journeys. Uh, I've two more people, but did you want to cut me off? I do
want to cut you off because you said it's maybe not important, but you have to keep in mind.
A lot of our listeners are still working in full-time jobs that they don't love and they want to work for awesome, cool people like you and the fact that, and I've gotten consulting gigs this way too. Like you listened to a podcast. You really resonate with the person and you reach out, or you have a teacher at a private college or a school, and you're like, oh my God, they're so awesome.
Don't be afraid to connect with that person because honestly you never know where it's going to lead and what's the harm in asking or pitching yourself or letting them know that like your dream job is to serve their business. So I think that's super helpful. So yeah, I'll pass it back to you. Okay.
Um, and then our two newer newest hires.
Um, Serena's actually a really interesting, I met her fi like five years ago. Um, I call, I needed someone to come clean my house and someone had canceled and there was like a little card in the lobby of our apartment. And it basically was like, I clean house and it had a phone number. And so I was desperate.
My dad was coming to visit. She answered the phone. And at that time was a newcomer to Canada spoke next to no English. And I was like, please come to my house today. And she's like, I can't, I have another gig. I was like, I'll pay you anything. So she's like, where do you live? And we lived in the same apartment building.
And so she came up, she did the most beautiful job in the whole world. She was like the nicest person. And so I got to know her a bit in her story. And she really wanted to grow, grow that business. And so I kind of just acted like business development for her for a few months. Like you couldn't talk to me without me being like, are you obsessed with your cleaning lady?
Like you need to try Serena. And so over the over many months, she, she was working in a not so good situation. She like grew that business for herself. And we became friends through that, living in the same building. And she would go to clean a lot of people's houses that I know. And she would have all these incredibly smart observations about them as people like very quick, like just got it.
And so over the years as her English got a little bit better, I had the wild idea that she could maybe start doing some of the backend stuff in our business. And it's so we started part-time because she had, you know, prior to working with a monarchy. Never done a job where she'd used a computer. So everything was like from ground zero email, like Google, like, you know, like sheets, docs, like, like nothing.
Um, and so we started part-time and over six months, the goal was to get her to a place where she could contribute enough value to the business. We could completely replace what she was making. Cleaning houses. And so this January was like that official start date, which is really exciting. Wow. That is such a cool story.
It was like, it was a very long journey. And so, you know, still to this day, like she's, self-conscious about her English, but like who cares? Like, you know, we interview software developers all day. I feel like, I think English is probably a bit overrated for a lot of jobs. Um, and then, so Hannah, who is also our newest hire, we went the more traditional route.
Put up a posting. We, we, we run something called the modern recruitment process, the modern recruitment method. We started that arm of the business because we couldn't find any recruitment companies that worked the way we wanted them to work back to my like fiercely independent comment. Um, and we found her and she is so smart and, um, I think what's incredibly unique is we envisioned someone who had had a lot more experience.
She had had like a couple of years from, from graduation. Um, but she's also an artist and she had linked to her website and her art. And I was like, wow. Like I like people who have like dimension to them. And so that led to the phone interview and then she blew us away in the interview process. And as part of our process, your second interview is always, I don't want to see a test.
That's not the right word, like an activity, the opportunity to showcase your skills. And she beat out a bunch of people who were way more experienced through our process, which really focuses on what, what you can do, not, you know, years of experience. Um, so she's, I think she's wrapping up week four today.
Um, but like, love, love her. And she's so smart and I'm really excited. She's on the team
in building a team, have you kind of blended like intuitive hiring with strategy? And skills or is that not terminology you would use? Cause it sounds like you have kind of followed these less conventional routes to build this dream team.
But yeah, like intuition comes to mind for me, but maybe you call it something different in making these hiring decisions.
Okay. So that's like such a dynamic question because you know, my HR colleagues. You know, in theory, when you teach recruitment and selection, your entire job is to eradicate what managers might feel as intuition, because that can lead to a lot of bias.
So hopefully I I'll, I'll, that'll be my disclaimer first. So my HR colleagues, you know, don't disown me. Um, I think, I think there's different stages in businesses. Most founders I meet when they're hiring their first three, four people, they're hiring people that are known entities to. And I think that's actually really okay.
And really important. It definitely, for many businesses will lead to a bit of a diversity deficit at the start because most of the people, you know, are like you, whatever you is. But I think when you're getting your business off the ground, like I was, you know, with like Leanna and. They were known entities to me, Carrie, I we'd worked together for so long.
We had a nice relationship built around our strengths. So I think early days of your business sure. Hire by intuition. But I think most people are going to known known entities. Yeah. I think as you evolve, like, you know, Sohan and Serena were a bit unique, so Honda specifically, because it was the first time that we've, we grew to a size that we were.
We know, we actually need to go beyond our network and the people we know, and that's where, um, I think great process leads to great results. And we do this with our clients all the time. And I think the biggest thing is most people don't, they don't really know what they want when they start to hire. And especially if you have a lot of, um, entrepreneurs with smaller businesses who listen.
A lot of those entrepreneurs, they have a lot of needs and we really helped them define them into, into jobs. Um, and so with, with Sohani, I wouldn't say it was intuition at all. I think it was like great our process, which we, you know, people pay us for. And we, we do it was great process and it led to a really great outcome.
Yeah. Some of the big differentiators, we'd never post years of experience or education requirements on our job postings. And like why people don't. Yeah. People don't notice Kelsey, like, it's the best thing we'll do this discovery calls. And we'll like really make people define the job. We'll show them the job posting.
And actually just wrote an article that I don't know when it'll come out, but about marketing and recruitment and your most people forget your job posting is an advertisement. It's like any other ad you would run, but there they're generally don't stay a lot or people just copy other people's. Um, so we, we, we don't ask people when we do discovery, like, Hey, how many years experience do you think this person will have?
Or if it's, you know, an accounting position and they need a particular designation, obviously we'll put that. But 98% of the jobs, we just don't, you know, Um, and as a result, you're really focused on outcomes and competencies. And so someone likes tahana like, yeah, we thought we'd get someone with five years experience, but we don't put it because we don't really care if you can do the job with two.
Great. Yeah.
Hmm. Um, switching gears a little bit, obviously over the past eight years, I'm sure you've learned a lot about how to manage your time as an entrepreneur, as a leader. I'm curious, how do you structure a typical workweek these days? Because. Now you have a team, you're also trying to think of the growth of a modern way to work.
You also probably have a daily to-do list. Do you have any success tips for setting up your week so that you're focusing on the right thing as you grow this company?
Yeah. That's a really nice question. I am inherently my first question. Anytime I'm doing something that I don't like to do is who can I get to do this for me?
So I think my biggest advice for business owners or entrepreneurs is 90% of what you're doing. You don't need to do. Uh, and, and, and I can hear all of their voices as we teach them this there's a resistance, right? Because your team will never do it the same way you would, but that's okay. Um, you know, we teach people often why delegation doesn't doesn't work a hundred percent of the time and how to set it up.
So it does, but I think. The only way to get control of your time is to understand that you need other people to do things for you and to be able to rely on them for that. Um, I feel like my life ebbs and flows, I have weeks and months, I feel really productive and like I've got it under control. And then I have weeks and months where I'm kind of letting the days, you know, drive me.
But I think for the most part, just relying on relying on other people to do work for you and removing the guilt of that is a big, big.
Yeah, I think it's especially important to kind of honor that seasonality that like, sometimes you are in a more strategic Headspace and you're like, yeah, I'm planning all these great projects for the future.
And other times you're like, I'm just staying afloat with my daily to-do list and that's okay too. Like not every day. Do you perfectly balance each hat that you're wearing? Maybe there is no magic formula. Like you almost just have to recognize that business comes in seasons and it's okay to kind of ebb and flow through different structures to your work week.
Yeah. And not beating yourself up. Like I go through long periods of time or know where you're up at seven, you're doing your workout. You're getting your steps in. You're doing your meditation, your whatever that morning routine looks like for you. And then, you know, like I shared with you right now, we're down in Austin for the winter.
And I'm just being a little more flexible with it, you know, to see, to see what the city has to offer. So,
um, when you are in one of those, I don't know, just like periods of business where you're not as clear and maybe you feel a little less motivated or just feel like you're hitting a brick wall with everything you're doing.
What do you do as the founder of this business to like, get out of that rut because we all go through it and I hear it every day with my client. I dunno, just something's feeling off or I'm just not motivated. So I'd love to know from you, how do you pick yourself up out of the dip? Yeah.
Um, I think having a team of people I'm accountable to, and a big part of my why is wanting to see them be successful.
So I might be having a low day, but you know, when I see. Yesterday was explaining compensable factors to Savannah, which like her eyes light up, you know, like getting to teach things to other people, I think keeps me inspired. Um, and I just, I love all like what maybe people would consider like cheesy, but like motivational things.
Like I'll go listen to a Tony Robbins chat. I'll go listen to an Amanda Francis. I'll go listen to. Things that are inspiring. Go talk to people that are inspiring. Chat with my friends who are business owners and let them pump me up. Um, you know, move my body. I think, I think it's okay to like be in the dip, but I think you also have to work really hard to, to get out of it because you're not going to attract a lot of good stuff into your life from the dip.
Oh, it's so juicy. It's okay to be in the debt, but yeah, we have to know what tools get us out of it, because if you stay in there too long, it's not a good spot to be, especially when you've got people who rely on you and people who look up to you. Right. And who want you to be in your peak state or at least in kind of that positive mindset.
So, yeah.
And other, and like other interests, like I'll always have like another interest brewing so that your, you know, your. Can become your life, but if you've got like something else that's like going on. Interesting. You know, it helps, I think, bring energy back into your business
too. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Totally. And to have something else that fuels your excitement to return to work, right. Cause if you're just on the computer all day, like you start to just like, I don't know, like it, it starts to feel repetitive, but when. Mountain biking. For example, I get business ideas and I hit the computer again. And I'm like, oh yeah, this is so cool.
And you know, I type out that blog a little faster or, you know, I, I'm excited to improve my resources versus dreading it.
Yeah. And I think realizing like, no, one's coming to get you out of the dip, but you like, oh yeah. That's like the biggest. Um, yeah.
Yeah. That's a bit of a reality check too, right? Like when you start a business, when you're running ship, but like, it's you, so you have to build up those tools in your toolbox that, you know, work to get you back into that inspired.
More hoof. Oh my gosh. This has been so much fun, Amanda. Um, I think the next logical question is if people want to connect with you or connect with a modern way to work, where can they come find you?
Yeah. So, um, I think a lot of people go to our website, which is just a modern way to work.com, but like I said, we are on Instagram.
Should you want to follow us? Um, it's just at a modern way to work. And then my own personal Instagram is Amanda underscore J.
Cool. I'm going to link all of that in the show notes so that people can come connect with you, give you some love on the Insta and on your website. And thank you so much for sitting down, sharing your story very relatable, and we loved hearing from you.
So thank you so much, Amanda. Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks for tuning in to this episode. Uh, visionary life. I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis, so it would be. So much to me, if you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show in your iTunes app, you can also support the show by taking a quick screenshot of the episode and sharing it on your Instagram stories.
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